US Citizenship through a grandparent – a guide from the initiated
March 13, 2007
I’ve found that many American expats tend to mistakenly assume that as US citizens their children are automatically eligible for citizenship. As far as they’re concerned all they have to do is go over to the embassy and register their kids and they’re citizens. In fact to pass on your own US citizenship to your children you need to fulfill at least one of the following requirements:
1) Be married to another US citizen OR
2) prove that you have lived for at least 5 years in the US of which at least 2 years have to have been past the age of 14.
Once they discover this requirement many older expats who moved with their children when young and whose children have married non-Americans are dismayed to realize that while their kids may have lived for 5 years in the US, the 2 years over 14 requirement means that those kids will not be able to pass on US citizenship to their children. Some of the more savvy ones have heard somewhere about the possibility of a grandparent passing on citizenship to their grandchild but there’s really so little information out there that most either give up or at most pay out a lot of money to immigration lawyers to sort it out for them.
Well no need no more. I’m going to explain to you here how to get start getting citizenship for your grandchild of a US citizen whose own parent is ineligible to pass on the citizenship due to the requirements stated above. I first wish to make a disclaimer though. I am NOT a lwayer or government official and make no guarantees. All I present here is based on my own experience of naturalizing 3 children using the grandparent law and doing it on my own without any need for professionals – it’s just about understanding which forms you need to use. Anyone else’s personal success will depend on various things such as the center they apply to and the documentation they are able to supply.
First I should note that the requirements listed above for naturalizing your child are for passing it on automatically at the embassy here in Israel. If you came (as I did) before age 16 and aren’t married to a US citizen then that’s indeed not an option for you. However there is an alternate option which is to apply for citizenship for your child under section 322 based on their US citizen GRANDPARENT fulfilling the second option (i.e. proving they’ve lived 5 years in the US at least 2 of which came after the age of 14). Note that the grandparent needn’t be living in the US now nor will they need to go to the US at any point with the grandchild. Unlike the automatic transfer from parent to child, however, citizenship through a grandparent will necessitate the citizen parent to take the child to the US for the naturalization interview (though there is no set amount of time you have to stay – if you want you can fly in the day before the interview and fly out a few hours after the interview).
Start the process by going to this page
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/N-600K.pdf
which is to apply for citizenship
And downloading the forms there. They’re in pdf format so make sure you have a program (such as acrobat) that can read pdfs. If you don’t have one you can download it for free at
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
and fill out the forms (the pdf file includes instructions on what they want of you).
Please note that while the citizen grandparent won’t have to appear at your child’s interview s/he will need to provide the applying parent with Xeroxes of
1) his/her own birth certificate and proof of his/her US citizenship
2) proof that S/HE indeed lived there for 5 years at least 2 after age 14. What is proof? They won’t tell you outright – they just tell you to provide the best you can. My advice is pour on the official documentation: School transcripts, degrees, employment records – anything legal which can establish his presence in the US for those 5 years. You may not need all that much but remember the interest in their becoming citizens is yours not the Immigration service’s and so the tighter the case you can build documentationwise the safer you are (which is good since living abroad its not like you can just come back in three months with more documentation).
The citizen parent must also have their own
1) birth and marriage certificates
2) child(ren)’s birth certificate(s)
3) You can submit Xeroxes of both your and your citizen parent’s documentation (in fact you SHOULD provide Xeroxes rather than the originals) but WILL be expected to bring the originals to the interview and produce them for the interviewer if asked (they never asked for my originals but Murphy’s Law says that if I hadn’t had them they’d have asked)
4) proof that you have custody of your child – ridiculous for a married parent I agree but that’s bureaucracy for you! What I did was got a printout (15 shekels apiece) from the Interior Ministry’s census registry which showed that we both (me and my kids) have the same address and that im living with their mother and am married.
5) All non-English documents must be accompanied by an English translation with the translator affirming himself competent to do the translation. You can abilitywise probably do it yourself but they don’t approve of that as it could affect your translating. Also it’s best to have someone with a different last name do it. Note that the Ministry of the Interior now offers a bilingual (Hebrew/English) birth certificate for the asking so you can save on translating that.
6) since you’re going to have to take the child(ren) to the states for the interview anyhow you might as well apply to a small processing center. Applying in New York LA or Miami could take several years till it all goes through. I applied through Philadelphia which is relatively small and it still took me almost 2 years. Someone else told me they did it through the Hartford Conneticuit office (which they said was an hour’s drive from NYC) and it all got done very quickly and in a friendly manner and I’ve heard similarthings about Rhode Island. In any case best to pick a place that nobody immigrates to. Coming from abroad means you have the right to apply to any field office anywhere in the US so check out the list here https://egov.immigration.gov/crisgwi/go?action=offices.type&OfficeLocator.office_type=SC and send your completed forms there along with xeroxes of the documents you intend to present to them as requested on the forms and listed by me above.
After a certain amount of time which can range anywhere from 3-4 months to 3-4 years depending in large part on what field office you apply to you’ll receive a letter from USCIS instructing you to appear before them at the field office with your child on a day they’ll set for you (usually about 3 months or so from when they send the letter). At that point you make your travel plans and submit a request to the embassy for a visa http://telaviv.usembassy.gov/consular/niv/Apply.aspx#1 and include a copy of your letter from the USCIS with your other documentation to the embassy. They’ll issue you a limited 60 day visa to take your child to the States for the interview.
The interview itself is a formality essentially. They’re not likely to invite you to come to the US unless they’re already convinced after reviewing the documentation you sent them that your case is sound. Of course they may want to check that you didn’t just create the documentation and that’s why it’s so important to have the original documentation with you. I don’t know what they do for older kids but for my kids who were all under 5 when I took them, they spoke exclusively to me, asked me basic questions about my dad’s documentation and then printed up naturalization certificates for the kids within an hour or so at which point they were US citizens.
One final note: in the interview letter they ask you to bring proof that thevidence of the applicant child’s entry into the US. What they want you to do is the following. On the plane they give you this white card to fill out about your plans for being in the country etc. When you go through border control they’ll take part of that card and leave you with the other part of it and stamp your kids passports (and yours) to show that you came through border control. The citizen parent should make a photocopy of the page in each applicant child’s passport that has that border control stamp on it and bring to the interview (with the other documentation of course). The interviewers appreciate that, especially since most people forget and then they’ve got to go photocopy the passport themselves – best to get them in a good mood right off by saving them the hassle. Naturally they should also bring the kids passports and that white card from the plane with them to the interview as well.
Entry Filed under: Guide, US, legal documentation. .
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1.
TBONE | April 29, 2007 at 12:33 am
A very good explanation for a terrible law.
2.
isranglo | May 2, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Tbone – thanks for the compliment on the explanation but why would you call it a terrible law? A convoluted process certainly but why a terrible law? Without it those of us who left the US at too young an age to pass on citizenship ourselves but old enough to feel patriotic enough to want our kids to have our US citizenship would be left with no recourse to obtain citizenship. If what you mean, however, is that things ought to be made a lot simpler (such as negating that pesky “2 years past the age of 14″ bit which makes no sense – why should someone who lived in the US from age 16-21 and then leaves get to pass on citizenship automatically while someone who lived there from birth till 15 doesn’t?!) then I’m with you!
3.
dennis hendrickson | July 20, 2007 at 4:59 am
Thanks for a lot of helpful info. You mention getting U.S. visas. Who needs them? The kiddies? How are they best gotten? Any cost involved or bureaucrapic hassel?
Again, thanks for your help.
Dennis
4.
isranglo | July 20, 2007 at 8:20 am
Since in order to get citizen the kids need to enter the States, ipso facto they won’t have a US passport to enter the US with. They need to enter with their native country’s passport and therefore need a visa.
If I recall correctly the cost is roughly in the hundred dollar range (unless it’s risen). In Israel you can call 171, the post office site, for more information. They have a special department for a courier service to the embassy. You send them your passport, a chit of payment from the post office showing you’ve paid (the larger post offices have them available) a copy of the letter ordering you to come to the US, a passport photo of the kid (I forget how many but it says on the form) and the form requesting a visa obtainable off the embassy site. You submit it all by courier and they’ll pick it up for you and return it with the visa inside.
5.
Yaniv Kaplan | November 12, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Thanks a lot. I heard this was an option however I was told it is complicated so I gave up before trying. I am in the exact same situation with my daughter.
The only thing is that it seems worth while to wait until you have all your kids and do them all in one shot (otherwise you will have to go over the procedure for each one, right?)
6.
isranglo | November 14, 2007 at 12:50 am
Yaniv
it’s more annoying than complicated but once you’ve done it once it’s basically resubmitting the same documents for yourself and your parent each time and submitting the new child’s documents as relevant to them.
No I’m afraid I wouldn’t advise your all in one shot deal for several reasons
1) do you know what a pain it is to take all those kids on a plane
2) Laws are always changing and there have been rumors around in recent years of them closing up the grandparent option. Do you really want to wait it out until the last kid only to discover the law was changed a year or 2 previously blocking off the option for those not already in the system?!
3) If you’re earning a non-American salary you can be eligible for up to $1000 per child per year from the US government till they turn 18(one of the reasons they’ve talked about closing the option I think) but it’s only retroactive for about 3 years. So lets say you have 4 kids, and now they’re ages 12, 9, 5 and infant. So no problem with the infant but you’ve lost as much as 17 thousand dollars on the other 3. Let’s just say that the thousand dollars I received on each kid just for the year in which I took them, more than covered the cost of both our round trip tickets to the US (by taking them before age 2 their ticket is like 10%), protected them from any future change in the law and provides a nice little sum per year till they turn 18.
4) the only reason to wait for them all to be born is if you want to go the other route of getting them citizenship which is to say you want to immigrate with them to the US, apply for citizenship for them on that basis, go to the US, pick up their citizenship and move back. As I understand it though that’s more complicated and could be problematic. You’d probably need an emigration lawyer to help you out which I didn’t need for the grandparent route.
7.
emma | June 16, 2008 at 10:03 pm
thanks for this info. please tell me how you can be eligible for $1000 for having a child as a US citizen
8.
Sharone | June 24, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Thank you very much for this information. It is very useful as I was unable to get the exact information from neither the US Embassy in Tel-Aviv website nor the USCIS one.
Are you sure that the grandparent option is still available?
One other question – Is it necessary to first apply for a Report of Birth from the US Embassy or can I just fill out the forms and use the Israeli Birth Certificate?
9.
ilona lerman | June 26, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Your explanation seems to clear up a very unclear procedure. I still have a few more questions.
1. As the citizen grandmother do I have to include MY marriage certificate?
2. Do I need to show all the times I spent in the states or only that I lived there 5 years including 2 years after 14?
3. Translation of a document by a friend is okay? Do I understand right that a notarization is not necessary?
Thanks in advance.
10.
Shiri | September 2, 2008 at 8:42 am
Hello,
I have done this procedure for my 2 children.
I want to know if there is an child age limit for this process. I mean do they have to be minors ? Under 18 or 21 ?
I am asking this for my brothers children.
Thanks,
Shiri
11.
isranglo | September 7, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Sharone
yes it’s still available as of the last time I checked which has been since your post.
As for the birth certificate you use obviously it must be the israeli birth certificate. If you were eligible to report your child at the embassy you wouldn’t need to go the grandparent route. The report of a child is to report an American child born to an american parent. your child isn’t an american child nor has automatic claim to it. If they do then they don’t need to go via the granddparent clause
12.
isranglo | September 16, 2008 at 11:52 am
Eamon
I wish I could be more encouraging but I’m afraid you’ve missed the boat on this law. Even if your mom might be able to make a case via her dad (and that’s highly unlikely through regula channels is my guess as she’d have likely have had to request it when young) you’re still too old to get anything from her via your grandfather being past age 26 yourself. The fact that your GF is deceased is another strike against you as the law tends to fluctuate such that it is often the case that they want the GF/GM alive when you apply. Wish I could be more encouraging but the GP law is very tenuous in terms of who they accept as it is even with kids whose parents are citizens and GPs are alive.
13.
Linda | September 18, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Hello Isranglo,
Bless your soul. You definately have a good heart explaining this N-600 K process step by step. This is a great help.
I had to make like 35 calls to the USCIS 1800 number to get only part of the info you are giving here. I would have loved to have seen this blog months ago(would have saved my a lot of agony )
I have submitted the N-600K for my 2 kids and am waiting for the interview at this time.
I have one question for you .
-Can you tell me the exact questions they asked during the interview?
Thanks for your help.
14.
Linda | September 19, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Hello Isranglo,
Bless your soul. You definately have a good heart explaining this N-600 K process step by step. This is a great help.
I had to make like 35 calls to the USCIS 1800 number to get only part of the info you are giving here. I would have loved to have seen this blog months ago(would have saved my a lot of agony )
I have submitted the N-600K for my 2 kids and am waiting for the interview at this time.
I have one question for you .
-Can you tell me the exact questions they asked during the interview?
Thanks for your help.
15.
Judith Guzman | September 23, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Hi Isranglo,
Thanks for all your insight. I have already filled the N-600K for my two daugthers. Can you tell me exactly which were the questions the adjudicator asked you during the interview.
I want to be prepared for when I have to travel for the interview.
Thanks,
Judith
16.
Linda | September 24, 2008 at 12:02 am
Isranglo,
Judith is standing right next to me.
Thank you for responding.
Great help!
Thanks,
Linda
17.
isranglo | October 12, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Michal
. If you want to stay by relatives you’re already limited anyhow to a reasonable radius from where you’re staying (appointments tend to be in the morning).
I suppose presumably it would be possible but 1) could cause confusion 2) might cause more problems than it will help and 3) to submit an application costs about 400 dollars now. i know the dollar’s dropped against the shekel (and almost everything else) but I’m not really sure you want to send 400 dollars a bunch of times for them to process you in different places.
Just send to a not so busy office and it should get done relatively fast. If you don’t care about where you go (you plan to stay at a motel or something) go somewhere like Idaho or Kansas or who knows where where noone would immigrate and where noone outside of those towns have relatives outside the state
Just stay away from coastal centers like New York New Jersey, LA, Miami etc. where there are large immigrant populations because EVERYONE doing this is sending to there so they can stay with their cuban/irish/italian/name your immigrant group relatives
18.
dude | October 23, 2008 at 11:13 pm
out of curiosity, how did you get hold of this info?
19.
isranglo | October 27, 2008 at 12:05 am
dude
1) the immigration service’s website
2) people who went through it before me
3) I’ve been through it myself twice
4) when people go through it and find that things have changed they’ll alert me as to significant changes
20.
isranglo | October 27, 2008 at 12:12 am
update
A friend who just applied to naturalize her children passed on a letter she received in reply from them. A couple of changes worth noting as of (apparently) mid-2007
1) diplomas from recognized institutions are no longer good for the period of the study unless accompanied by actual transcripts. From what I can understand they’ll give you credit for one year per diploma but no more than that without the grades. So if like me you have the parent’s high school, BA, MA and PHD certificates (formerly proving WELL above the 5 years necessary of residence) you still need to prove anoter year.
2) they’re asking for all translations now to be official, certified translations. It doesn’t say notarized so it’s not clear official from whom or certified in what way.
21.
Raeanne | November 17, 2008 at 10:29 am
Wow, I love this! My Grandma grewup in the States and appeantly my Aunt is trying to help her get citizen for my Dad and siblings. My Dad figured that they wouldn’t have a problem… and mentioned that I might be able to get it from him. Reading this, obviously makes me realize that its almost impossible for me since Im 20 years old. Kinda sucks, but glad I know now instead of paying out $400 to apply and be denied. Thanks
22.
isranglo | November 17, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Raeanne
well I’m glad I saved you the money – wish I could have been more helpful about the citizenship. One thing you should note about this though is that even to give your younger siblings citizenship via a grandparent its critical taht your father have the citizenship before they do. You might also want to have him make sure as to whether they can still be elegible if he wasn’t a citizen at the time they were born. I didn’t see anything to contradict that but for some reason I can’t quite explain I seem to remember seeing somewhere that there might be a problem there.
23.
Sue | February 2, 2009 at 1:44 pm
I have filled in form N600k for my 16 year old son to get citizenship through his grandparent (my deceased Dad).
What is the best way to send the $460 to the USCIS in the U.S.?
24.
Ilan | February 3, 2009 at 12:11 pm
you are very kind to share this experience and information. Thank you. I am starting the application process. Maybe you can help me with some specifics if you know these answers or where I may turn to for them.
1. My kids are all Israeli and Canadian citizens already. The oldest was born in Canada and made ALiyah with my wife and I when he was 14 months. The other three were all born in Israel and we applied and received citizenship for all of them in Canada. We all live in Israel. So, do I need to provide proof of citizenship for both countries? Also, my son who was born in Canada is Jeremy Tzvi in Canada but just Tzvi in Israel. Any idea what I should put in the application form?
2. I would like to apply in Buffalo. Our families live in Toronto Canada, so we would plan to fly to Toronto and just drive across the border to Buffalo the day of our meeting. However, we usually don’t get stopped at the border when driving through – we just go. Do we need to stop and ask for some proof of crossing into the US for our kids and should we be telling them at the border the purpose of our visit for citizenship in the US?
25.
isranglo | February 5, 2009 at 10:59 am
Ilan
1. Not sure what to do about the name issue – that could be tricky – I believe though that his Israeli passport has the name written one way in English and the other in Hebrew and that might be able to constitute proof that it’s the same person. In any case keep in mind that a) the important thing isn’t proving his Canadian or Israeli citizenships but proving he has a right to an American one and therefore b) that you have the proper documentation to support that. It’s also not clear to me from what you wrote whether you’re trying to apply through a grandparent or have the right to pass on the citizenship yourself.
2. You WANT to stop at the border to get stamped. Part of obtaining US citizenship for a foreigner whether through immigration or through the grandparent clause is to prove that he’s been on US soil. That’s really the main reason they call you to the US for the interview. Otherwise they could just train someone at the local US embassy to do it. Definitely tell them the reason and make sure they stamp (Jeremy) Tzvi’s passport as having entered there.
26.
DC Mobile | February 5, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Isranglo,
Thanks for the quick response and sharing your past experience at this stage. I am going to the Buffalo office and hopefully all goes well.
Thanks again
27.
ben elias | February 7, 2009 at 5:49 pm
We have been looking at your blog and it seemed to us that you seem to be the best informed nin-governmental source available.
We are planning to take our two children to the states in August (if that proves practical) to establish their US citizenship.
I could be grateful if you could respond to my e-mail address.
28.
ger | February 10, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Hi,
This is a very insightful blog.
My kids have been called for an interview and I plan on giving a date about 2 months out to try and ensure it would be available.
Thanks.
Ger.
29.
isranglo | February 11, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Ger
Thanks – glad you’ve found it useful. Good Luck!
30.
DC Mobile | February 11, 2009 at 6:45 pm
WOW…My children (11 & 14) have now received US citizenship certificates from the Buffalo field office on Feb 10, 2009.
Regards…DC
31.
ilan kazin | February 18, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Shalom and Thank You,
My question is this. I was born in Israel and received my American passport from my deceased father (does it matter how long ago he died?). If he is no longer alive is there a point of applying in his name? (i have proof of him living there 5 years, 2 of which were after 14).
Thanks alot
Ilan
32.
Sharon | February 27, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Hi, great explanation-thanks a lot!
I would like a clarification regarding the “proof that you have custody of your child” – I understand that you got a printout (15 shekels apiece) from the Interior Ministry’s census registry which showed that you and your kids have the same address and that you are living with their mother and am married.
How can I get this printout? do I have to go there myself and request it or can it be done online? is it really necessary?
33.
isranglo | March 13, 2009 at 11:29 am
Sharon
Your case number when applying for citizenship is called your A number because it’s a code beginning with an A. Whether it’s later printed on the certificate or not I don’t know though because this is the first time they’ve ever bothered to tell me what my A number was. In the past for who knows what reason they just dealt with my case without giving me any acknowledgement of it until they sent me the letter to come for the interview so I never knew what my kids’ A numbers were. If it’s not on the certificate though I don’t have a clue of why you’d be expected to remember it now! I’d suggest calling their service center number listed on the http://www.uscis.gov site and asking there.
34.
Assaf | March 16, 2009 at 10:26 am
Hi. can’t tell you how much ya helped us.
tnx again !
35.
isranglo | March 16, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Assaf
. As to your questions
glad to help
1) there is no hard and fast rule as to what’s acceptable proof but yes official grade reports are probably the closest you can get to “guaranteed,” especially since they say you MUST have them in order to get credit for individual school years of a degree (it used to be, for example, that having a BA gave you an automatic 4 years but now it’s only worth 1 unless you have grade transcriptions).
2) no guarantees but traditionally Buffalo, Rhode Island and Hartford are all supposed to be relatively quiet offices.
36.
assaf | March 18, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Hi again.
We are filling in the form. Just to be sure:
My wife is a US citizen, through birth in Israel to a US citizen parent and does not fulfil the conditions (did not live 5 years in the US at least 2 of which came after the age of 14).
Her mother is the US citizen GP, fulfiling the mentioned conditions of living in the US.
Who should be applying on behalf of our kids – my wife, (the US citizen parent) OR the US citizen GP ?
Part 5 of the n600k form got me mixed up…
tnx.
37.
Martin | March 22, 2009 at 2:28 pm
What a useful blog!!! Your patient and knowledgeable answers are an inspiration.
If you were looking at using USCIS offices in Portland, Maine or Manchester, New Hampshire which would you prefer for getting an appointment as soon as possible?
38.
isranglo | March 24, 2009 at 4:33 pm
thanks Martin
Though i haven’t used them I’m guessing that both of those offices are going to get you in fast as they’re not near any major immigrant areas that would tend to attract people looking to combine their citizenship trip with a visit to relatives. To my knowledge neither of those places has a major immigration draw of any sort so it should go quite fast.
39.
ASSAF | April 2, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Hi.
We are filing the forms for both our children.
We want the same office and interview date for both..
how should we file? two seperate envelopes, each with all the documents, or both together in one envelope ?
thank you so much !
40.
ASSAF | April 20, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Hi,
any knowledge of the Atlanta USCIS field office ?
Is it crowded ?
TNX!
41.
Ben | May 6, 2009 at 12:28 am
Thanks for the very useful blog post… I’m currently looking to go down the N-600K route for my son and have been a bit overwhelmed by the difficult procedure and lack of information. The US embassy in Cairo gave me utterly incorrect information each time on three separate visits.
42.
shmuel | May 27, 2009 at 12:33 pm
I did a N600k application 2 years ago at Philadelphia for 10 grandchildren and it went very smoothly (4 one time and 6 two weeks later)
For proof of my residency they accepted the accompanying form to the report of a birth abroad for my children, ( the applicants parents) which stated the times that I lived in the States.
They said if it was approved by the State Department then it was good enough for them. I did bring along my transcripts, yearbooks and even graduation invitation just in case but never had to use it.
It took about 3 months for the appointment and they were very nice, I sent in a new application for a new grandchild and am awaiting notification of scheduling
One thing not mentioned is that if you want to get the tax credit you need a social security number and that is obtained at the Social Security office which is a whole new ballgame. It can be done on the same day after receiving the citizenship papers on a walk in basis.
In Philadelphia they would not accept a US passport as proof of birth and required a birth certificate so you have to have all your papers with you when you go there. There is no fee involved, download the forms in advance, and it should take about a half hour once you get to the clerk.
43.
isranglo | June 7, 2009 at 11:46 am
Thanks Shmuel – great post. allow me to caution though that while you and i didn’t have to show our documentation, Murphy’s law states that if we ever DIDN’T make sure to have it all, that would be when they asked for it. Better overprepared then under but you’re right that there’s no need for panic. They’re generally not people to travel to the US unless they think you already have a strong case.
I was in the social security office in Philly too and I should note that they asked for 2 forms of ID and allowed the Israeli passport to be one of them. However, I’d basically say that if you just take everything to the citizenship interview with you in a ring binder with sheets as I did (a section for birth certificates, another for marriage certificates, passports etc.) take the binder to social security with you too and you’ll have everything you need there and more.
True, that while I always get the social security number while there, I didn’t actually discuss it here. the reason was because the post was a guide towards the citizenship and I wanted to at least TRY and focus on that part. That said, your point is a good one – it’s also less of a hassle to get it while there than to run over to the embassy (unles you live in Tel Aviv perhaps).
44.
zaze | June 12, 2009 at 4:13 am
Thanks Isranglo for all your advice. We applied 6months go and received an email this week to say “The children’s files have been preliminarily reviewed. We would like to set up an interview with you and your children here in our Albany office.” Does this mean that we are through!! Also what is this tax credit that you can get for your children, can anyone explain further
45.
shmuel | September 3, 2009 at 12:51 pm
I went to Phili again this July and there were new people there. They would not accept the State department form 240 as sole proof of my residency and asked for transcripts diplomas etc
Of course I always carry a complete file of original documents and it was no problem.
The entire interview took 20 minutes with a kind and professional staff. Social Security was also no problem
In general if you are looking for a location do not believe the USCIS website for application times. From personal experience it is generally not correct and it is best to try to contact the office and get a feel for times
46.
Randel | September 3, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Thank for the new info, shmuel. Glad to hear it went well. What exactly is a State department form 240? Did the authorities in Phili want current proof of your of your exact home address abroad, or did they merely want proof that you live abroad? What sort of transcripts, diplomas, etc did you have to show them to prove your present residency abroad? I am just about finished with putting together my N-600K app for my little boy and — regarding proof of my present residency (in Germany) — I hope that a document from the local registration authority stating my current home address will suffice. One more thing: did you actually call the Phili office and talk with them about approximate application/waiting times? Were they actually willing to talk abou this (which would contradict what I have read about this elsewhere online)?
47.
assaf | June 11, 2009 at 8:23 am
Hi – A month ago i sent my kids n600k forms to the Providence office in RI.
this is the email reply i recieved:
The cases for your children have been pre-approved. Please provide me with dates that you and your children will be able to visit the United States to receive the certificates.
48.
assaf | June 16, 2009 at 9:12 am
We have been re approved by the Providence RI office.
They aked us what dates we would want to come with the kids, and gave us the instructions regarding the Info pass appointment. You need to have an appointment for each child. Also, you cannot make the appointments until two weeks prior to the date you wish to visit the office. For example, if you wish to come on September 21 you need to wait until September 7 to make the Info pass appointment.
49.
Martin | July 22, 2009 at 6:14 am
Hi, I came back again because I have filed for my 2 grandchildren at the Portland, Maine field office. From what I could glean from the USCIS site, it will be at least 6 months until they get around to our applications. Meantime, since I will be visiting (by myself) in the states and am to meet the accountant that takes care of my IRS issues. He mentioned to my brother the $1000 per child idea. Aside from getting Social Security numbers for the kids, what other procedures are involved? If you prefer to relate to this not in this blog, I’d be happy to have a mail from you with whatever you can contribute. Thanks again for your “crusading efforts!!”
50.
itman | July 26, 2009 at 1:55 am
Hi isranglo,
Thanks for a wonderful job on presenting this info in such a thorough yet precise and digestible way (and entertaining, which is no mean feat, subject matter being bureaucracy)
Much appreciated!
Blessings,
I
51.
isranglo | July 29, 2009 at 9:41 pm
generally speaking once you’ve gotten an invitation (and assuming your original documentation is in your hands and not forged
) you’re through and the interview (at least for younger kids which is what I have experience of) is a formality.
The tax credit is for up to $1000 per child per year. Make sure to get a social security number while in the States (less of a hassle than doing it here I’ve found) and speak to an accountant who deals with the tax credit issue. Here in Israel for example I found a fellow who specializes specifically in this.
As a US citizen you’re legally obligated to file tax forms even while abroad. This is even if you make nothing ot not enough to pay US taxes. But the plus side is that you’re also entitled to tax credit.If you owe nothing but are eligible for child credit they give you a refund and a refund off nothing means money for you.
52.
isranglo | July 29, 2009 at 9:43 pm
itman
. I’ve found that if you can’t laugh about bureaucracy than you end up tearing your hair off and gnawing your leg off and the hat and prosthetic leg are such a pain…:-)
thanks – much appreciated
53.
isranglo | July 29, 2009 at 9:47 pm
A friend I helped who just came back from the Conneticuit office wrote to tell me that everything went so smoothly she was in and out in under and hour. They were very friendly and they didn’t even ask to look at any documents
Meantime I’m heading off to the States in just a few hours with an appointment scheduled for next week. If any of you are scheduled to report to the Portland Oregon office a week from sunday I’ll be the one with the especially cute baby
. I’ll report on my experience when I get back.
54.
zaze | August 1, 2009 at 3:12 am
HI . I HAVE an appt in 2 weeks time. can i ask, are the children ok to fly back and apply for the us paspsort back at the embassy?
55.
Randel | August 30, 2009 at 12:03 am
Hello Isranglo (and all visitors to this Website who read this message). Very helpful Website. I have just about completed the N-600K application for my little boy. One question about the $460 filing fee: did you send a money order? We are based in Germany and I am planning to try and get/purchase (in Germany) an international money order, since I do not have a bank account in the US. Any info on this matter would be very helpful. Thanks.
56.
isranglo | August 30, 2009 at 11:34 am
ok people sorry so long but I’ve just been to the States to get another child citizenship and I’ll soon be posting my experiences in the Portland Oregon office.
meantime to touch on the questions above
1) According to a friend’s friend who I spoke to while in the states (albeit too late to help my paranoiac worries) and who works for border control there’s no need to do the passport in the US and even if you do you should still take the kid out on the israeli passport so they can close the I-94 on them.
2) as to the fee I’ve always found that almost anyplace where there are Americans who want this for their (grand)kids said expats tend to know a lot of other expats and there’s almost always someone in the community (usually many) that keep an American account (for business reasons or whatever). I try and find someone like that and have them write a check for me to homeland security for the fee and then depending on how they prefer it and how close I am to them either pay them the amount in the local currency on the spot or have them tell me when the check is cashed by homeland security and pay them then by that day’s exchange rate. I’ve never had trouble finding someone willing to lend a hand with that especially if you offer to pay them back up front.
57.
zaze | September 1, 2009 at 11:21 am
does it mattert if the us granparent is deceased for the l;ast 5 years but was a citizen for 15 years?
58.
Arinak | August 30, 2009 at 6:16 pm
HELLO!
We heard about this possibility about three years ago and it has taken me two years of research, phone calls and surfing to try to gather all of the correct information.
Finally ( thanks to a friend who was trying to help me fill in the forms) we have found a source with detailed” how to” information!
I would like to repeat what others have said: THANK YOU so much for sharing your knowledge and for keeping this going.
We are applying for our three children, ( also Canadian and Israeli) and were going to do it through Baltimore , but now will look into the Buffalo office.
As well, since we are unable to get someone to give us checks from a US bank, has anyone written a money order from an Israeli Bank? Do we need to send a money order for each application or can we send one that covers the cost of three?
Good luck to everyone and again, thank you !
59.
konrad | September 6, 2009 at 1:34 am
hi, i heard about this grandparent rule a month ago and I am very interested. My grandmother became an american citizen in 1932 at the age of 27, voted in the presidential elections in1933 and returned home after 11years and died in 1994. I am 23years now and I am not sure if I am intitled to this citizenship rule. Is this only applied to young grandchildern ie. 16years and under? or can any grandchild apply no matter what age old or young? I would be very very grateful if you could help me on this matter.
60.
isranglo | September 8, 2009 at 8:55 pm
as far as I know the grandparent has to be alive at the time of the filing at least if not at the time of the interview but the rule there is hazy and seems to switch at various times.
In any event though the offer is only valid assuming 1) the applicant’s parent (grandparent’s child) has citizenship (even though they’re not able to pass it on themselves due to not fulfilling other requirements 2) the applicant is under 18 at the time of application.
61.
isranglo | September 8, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Arinak
.
thanks for the compliment – I do what I can to help
Now…
1) obtaining a 3rd citizenship can be tricky in any case. You have to be sure all the nationalities allow it or at least the one you’re applying for doesn’t mind. Not sure how Canada feels about dual citizenships in general and with the US in particular but more important is how the US feels about Canadians applying for US citizenship
2) you can definitely pay for all 3 at once but only if you send all 3 at once. Remember that homeland security requires that you submit a seperate application for each applicant. My response was to do so, put each sheaf of papers in a separate envelope, and then put the kids (in your case 3) envelopes into a larger envelope. In the larger envelope you’ll include a letter asking to have your appointments assigned to the same case officer and scheduled for the same day and payment covering all of their fees.
3) I don’t know where you live but most decent sized cities in israel have city lists such as janglo and raananalist etc. I’ll bet if you explained your issue onlist and offered to pay upfront you’d find someone willing to help out with a check. I’m afraid I know nothing about money orders.
62.
Richard | October 2, 2009 at 4:59 am
This information has been a great help. Tx so much for making it available. I have been living outside the US for many years, and have minor children. Can you please explain in more detail the steps/process involved in applying for the $1000 per year amount per child. How does one go about it, and are there any “cons” involved. i.e. if up to now I haven’t been filing tax returns, but start all of sudden, might that create potential problems etc? I am not doing business for profit, but running a charitable foundation. Thank you.
63.
Candy | October 9, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Thank you for the great advice you give! It is by far the most informative web source on the N-600K process I have found!
I am applying for my 7 year old son (as his US citizen parent) and have the physical presence requirements already (got the 5 years AFTER he was born). Will be applying at the Buffalo office…
My questions were:
a) which section of the N-600K form does the citizen parent sign? Part 7 or Part 8?
b) For those who applied at Buffalo… what was the processing time from receipt of the application to the time you went for the interview? Am told it is about 6 months….
64.
Assaf | October 11, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Hi.
Came back from Providence RI, with my citizen kids… The process went smooth & quick.
We filed the applications for the Social security cards in Providence, but have’nt received yet the cards/numbers.
My question: Can we file the Passport requests in the embassy in Tel Aviv, before we recieve the Social security number ?
TNX!
65.
Moira | October 15, 2009 at 9:49 am
I’m going down this route with my 15 year old son in the UK. I’m an American born woman married to a Brit but I’ve only got 10 months residence as I was a baby when we left.
My father lived in the US from his birth till we left the US in 1955. Both my parents are now dead and my mother destroyed much of my father’s documentation. To prove his residence I have gone for his original first passport application available from the Department of State and have a copy of his Social Security Number application when he was 16. The passport application is a certified copy. I’m taking the view that he couldn’t have left the country without a passport from his birth till he got his first one. The officials I have dealt with have been optimistic that this will be acceptable.
Another question. can you change the appointment date when you get it? My son is in a crucial year in the UK education system and with both exam’s and continmuous assessment I can’t take him out of school – even at 3 month’s notice. The next two years are similar as they have important exams and course work until they are 18.
Has anyone else gone down this route?
And thanks for the info about the offices to use. I had been planning New York, on the assumption that you had to go back to where you were born.
66.
TranquilityBase | October 19, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Very interesting information – referred to me by a lawyer!
My situation is a bit different. My Grandfather lives in the USA, and I’m an adult living in the UK. I’ve been advised that the route mentioned here is the best way forward for me, but would the forms required be different?
The form here seems to be for a parent to fill in for a child, not for child-now-adult seeking to make the application himself.
Any pointers here?
67.
sister mo | October 23, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Hi!
Thanks so much for keeping up this blog for such a topic! As mentioned before it is indeed a most valuable resource on the matter.
A question: Can this process take place, if the grandparent is a citizen (and fulfills all the requirements), but the parent of the grandchild isn’t a citizen?
the longer story goes like this: The grandparent is a US citizen for many years, and issued a Greencard for her adult son. The son lived for a few months in the US, then returned to Israel and the Greencard was physically lost. The son did not bother replacing it. Now, after a few years the son found himself completing 4 years of relocation in the US, on a visa. He has 2 kids who were born before the relocation in Israel. The son is NOT a citizen. His mother (the grandparent) IS. Is there a way that she can transfer the citizenship to the grandchildren?
If indeed so: the grandmother lives in NY, NY. The son and grandchildren in Denver, CO. where should they file?
Thank you so much in advance
& Shabat Shalom
68.
Martin | October 25, 2009 at 6:51 am
We returned erev Succoth, but only now did I find time to share this. We applied for 2 kids (1 and 3 yrs.) at the Portland Maine office,. The appointment in South Portland, Maine was set up in very good time (the receipt for payment is dated June 1 and the invitation letter is dated August 1 for the appointment on September 29). Being less than 2 hours from Boston, it is a nice option for anyone having reason to be in that area of the country. The office itself was well organized and efficient, the officer who interviewed us was polite and basically, we were out of there with our two certificates of citizenship and little American flags for the kids in about an hour and a half. As already discussed here in the blog, the original documents we brought were not requested, and the photo copy of the immigration cards was duly appreciated.
We applied for our Social Security numbers the same day at the Portland, ME office, and that took only about 1/2 an hour, including our wait in line to get to the counter.
Once again, I wanted to thank you personally for your valuable blog.
69.
Yaniv Kaplan | October 27, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Hi,
This is Yaniv (back from comment 5 two years back…)
Till this date I have done nothing (was abroad) but I have decided to do this now.
I have a question – why do you state I need to provide my father’s birth certificate? I am reading the N-600K instructions and from what I see they ask only for my birth certificate.
I am asking since I have a hard time believing I can ever find my father’s birth certificate…
Thanks,
Yaniv
70.
Jonathan | November 3, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Isranglo, thanks a lot for your all the information you give.
I am working on collecting all the forms for the Grandparent citizenship.
I had two quests:
1. My Dad has two doctor’s degrees from US universities. Is this enough to prove that he lived in the US for 5 years? It take more than 5 years to become a doctor!
2. Regarding my marriage certificate: did you just translate it or did you go to the rabanot in Jerusalem to get it signed and authorized by them?
Thanks a million,
Jonathan
71.
kell | November 4, 2009 at 7:50 pm
My father is a US citizen, but has never lived in the US. My grandparents were both US citizens and my grandfather meets the residency requirements, but they are both deceased. I am 32 years old. Is there any way or chance of getting my case approved?
72.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 3:46 pm
ok first let me apologize for taking so long with both answering questions and with posting my report about my most recent trip to get citizenship for a child in Oregon. Between getting back from the trip, the schoolyear starting, the Jewish holidays and recently computer issues I just haven’t gotten a chance so now I’m going to try and catch up on some past stuff. I’ll start with your questions…
73.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Yaniv
. If they were naturalized and you have their certificate of naturalization you might still need a birth certificate but it will likely be less important. But just proving they lived in the US doesn’t necessarily prove they’re a US citizenship. They could have snuck over the border from mexico as so many do…:-). And yes I’ve always had the officers ask about where my dad was born in both offices I went to for the interview.
The N600k is dependent on the citizen grandparent’s having fulfilled all the requirements that would be requested of a parent were the parent able to pass on the citizenship personally. therefore as part of your parent’s documentation you have to show their right to US citizenship based on the claim you’re making that they have such citizenship. In otherwords either a US birth certificate or a certificate of naturalization. If your parent is US born you’ll have trouble proving they’re naturalized since they weren’t
So to the more important question which is, what do you do if you’re missing yours? Well these things are usually kept on record somewhere. Possibly city hall of the town where he was born or perhaps some other recors office. I don’t know where he’s from but I’m guessing if you got online and typed the state name (or city name if it’s a large city) and keywords like “birth certificate” you could find out where to obtain a copy of said certificate.
74.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Moira
your story underlines an interesting problem with the whole process which is that there’s a lot that NOONE can tell you about what will/won’t be acceptable. There’s a lot of gray area where officials can decide to accept or not accept the proofs you give. For example I asked about their requirement to prove that the child is in your custody. For a divorced couple that’s no problem: there are papers attesting to it. But to a married person go prove that your kid’s in your custody! It’s so self evident you’d think you wouldn’t need to but when I asked them about it they just said “well you’ll have to bring whatever you can think of to prove it.” Therefore it’s possible that your argument will work and a case officer could certainly legally let it through as far as I understand…but only if they want to. It’s in their hands and so you’ll just have to trust to getting a sensible case officer if you can’t find more solid evidence.
As for changing the date I never had any trouble with that in the offices I went to (Philadelphia and Portland) but I’ve been told that in other places there are problems though I can’t recall specifically which offices gave no option to change.
and yes at any event if you can help it avoid the large field ofices.
75.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Tranquility
.
I’m flattered to hear that lawyers are referring people to me as a source considering I have no academic standing in the area – but of course go through a process enough times and you learn things academics don’t teach you
I wish I could be of more help but I’m afriad you’re right. The N600K is for minors wishing to apply via a grandparent. Once you hit 18 this isn’t the right form. I’ve been trying for a long time to answer your question for a cousin of mine who’s in the same position and have met with a solid “can’t be done through grandparent transference” in every direction. However if your grandparent lives in the USA you may be able to apply through the regular immigration system with him as your sponsor. The fact that you could have done it pre-adulthood would probably strengthen your claim at least to a green card over other weaker cases. If you somehow find a way to get transference through a grandparent even once adult be sure to write and let me know as the question is often asked here.
76.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 6:02 pm
sister Mo
).
wow that’s a complex one – you may need a lawyer this time but let me at least tackle what I can (besides the shabbat shalom which since it’s thursday now I can still answer likewise
so first of all about the green card I’m not so sure the physical card is what matters as that can probably be accessed through government files. The question really is whether he broke the terms of the green card which requires, to my understanding, a minimal presence in the US for a certain succesive period of time. Any kids born in Israel before the relocation to the US would likely not be eligible via the N600k as the parent was certainly not a citizen at the time of their birth but they may be able to claim citizenship automatically should their father (if he becomes a US citizen while they’re still minors) choose to “immigrate” with them to the US (though he may of course choose to cancel the “move” once they’re given the citizenship).
In any event until the son has citizenship the N600k shouldn’t work for them – sorry, but the citizenship chain is necessary.
77.
sister mo | November 5, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Thank you so much for your reply. It was definitely enlightening and explains the way to go…
Shabat Shalom again
ps: i have entered another post, the same, as I thought that this one was not accepted. please delete it if you haven’t already…
78.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Jonathan
Glad to help.
1) the answer alas is no. The 2 degrees would have been good until a couple of years ago and worked for my first 3 kids. Unfortunately, a couple of years ago (maybe less) a new law came into effect whereby you could no longer just hand over a BA degree (4 years in the states) and have it count for 4 years. Pity as it was very convenient.
if you want to have a degree considered for more than one year you have to provide official transcripts from the institution of study for all the years you want counted. The degree alone will only count for 1 year without the transcripts.
2) the Rabbanut translate it? Lord help us all? With all the Shas and Aguda appointees there you’d be hard pressed to get a translation unless it was into yiddish maybe
. Anyone is allowed to translate your documents (though it’s best to steer away from self-translation or having a relative of the same name do it) as long as they attach to it a written statement wherein they affirm their knowledge of both languages and their competence to translate from one to the other and sign their names and put their details there in case any contact is needed (noone’s EVER contacted my translator but one does it for form’s sake).
79.
Jonathan | November 7, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Thanks for answering so quickly.
My Dad gave me three degrees he has spanning graduations from 1964 till 1969. he also found his graduation year book from one of his universities. Also on his marriage certificate it says that he got marriade in the US in 1963. so I have 6 years of proof. Do you think that will cut it?
Also he can’t find his birth certificate although he has a US passport and in his marriage certificate it says that he was born in the US. Does he have to have his birth certificate per say? or are these enough.
I asked about the rabbanot drill, because I heard of Israeli’s who got it signed by the ministry of relegion in Jerusalem and then had the whole thing translated. good to hear that that is uneccesary.
Thanks again
80.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Kell
I’m afraid it’s that last bit which is the killer. the N600k as far as I know only applies to minors (up to age 18). Were you 15 years younger you’d be almost a shoo-in for citizenship alas I’m afraid you waited too long. On the up side should you decide to apply though regular channels the fact that you had this option may improve your argument for immigration over people without this background, especially if you have a relative taht will sponsor you.
81.
Yaniv Kaplan | November 5, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Hi,
My father was not born in the US, he was naturalized. Won’t my father’s passport do the trick to prove he is a US citizen??? Isn’t that what that means?
Thanks,
Yaniv