US Citizenship through a grandparent – a guide from the initiated
March 13, 2007 at 1:28 am 475 comments
I’ve found that many American expats tend to mistakenly assume that as US citizens their children are automatically eligible for citizenship. As far as they’re concerned all they have to do is go over to the embassy and register their kids and they’re citizens. In fact to pass on your own US citizenship to your children you need to fulfill at least one of the following requirements:
1) Be married to another US citizen OR
2) prove that you have lived for at least 5 years in the US of which at least 2 years have to have been past the age of 14.
Once they discover this requirement many older expats who moved with their children when young and whose children have married non-Americans are dismayed to realize that while their kids may have lived for 5 years in the US, the 2 years over 14 requirement means that those kids will not be able to pass on US citizenship to their children. Some of the more savvy ones have heard somewhere about the possibility of a grandparent passing on citizenship to their grandchild but there’s really so little information out there that most either give up or at most pay out a lot of money to immigration lawyers to sort it out for them.
Well no need no more. I’m going to explain to you here how to get start getting citizenship for your grandchild of a US citizen whose own parent is ineligible to pass on the citizenship due to the requirements stated above. I first wish to make a disclaimer though. I am NOT a lwayer or government official and make no guarantees. All I present here is based on my own experience of naturalizing 3 children using the grandparent law and doing it on my own without any need for professionals – it’s just about understanding which forms you need to use. Anyone else’s personal success will depend on various things such as the center they apply to and the documentation they are able to supply.
First I should note that the requirements listed above for naturalizing your child are for passing it on automatically at the embassy here in Israel. If you came (as I did) before age 16 and aren’t married to a US citizen then that’s indeed not an option for you. However there is an alternate option which is to apply for citizenship for your child under section 322 based on their US citizen GRANDPARENT fulfilling the second option (i.e. proving they’ve lived 5 years in the US at least 2 of which came after the age of 14). Note that the grandparent needn’t be living in the US now nor will they need to go to the US at any point with the grandchild. Unlike the automatic transfer from parent to child, however, citizenship through a grandparent will necessitate the citizen parent to take the child to the US for the naturalization interview (though there is no set amount of time you have to stay – if you want you can fly in the day before the interview and fly out a few hours after the interview).
Start the process by going to this page
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/N-600K.pdf
which is to apply for citizenship
And downloading the forms there. They’re in pdf format so make sure you have a program (such as acrobat) that can read pdfs. If you don’t have one you can download it for free at
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
and fill out the forms (the pdf file includes instructions on what they want of you).
Please note that while the citizen grandparent won’t have to appear at your child’s interview s/he will need to provide the applying parent with Xeroxes of
1) his/her own birth certificate and proof of his/her US citizenship
2) proof that S/HE indeed lived there for 5 years at least 2 after age 14. What is proof? They won’t tell you outright – they just tell you to provide the best you can. My advice is pour on the official documentation: School transcripts, degrees, employment records – anything legal which can establish his presence in the US for those 5 years. You may not need all that much but remember the interest in their becoming citizens is yours not the Immigration service’s and so the tighter the case you can build documentationwise the safer you are (which is good since living abroad its not like you can just come back in three months with more documentation).
The citizen parent must also have their own
1) birth and marriage certificates
2) child(ren)’s birth certificate(s)
3) You can submit Xeroxes of both your and your citizen parent’s documentation (in fact you SHOULD provide Xeroxes rather than the originals) but WILL be expected to bring the originals to the interview and produce them for the interviewer if asked (they never asked for my originals but Murphy’s Law says that if I hadn’t had them they’d have asked)
4) proof that you have custody of your child – ridiculous for a married parent I agree but that’s bureaucracy for you! What I did was got a printout (15 shekels apiece) from the Interior Ministry’s census registry which showed that we both (me and my kids) have the same address and that im living with their mother and am married.
5) All non-English documents must be accompanied by an English translation with the translator affirming himself competent to do the translation. You can abilitywise probably do it yourself but they don’t approve of that as it could affect your translating. Also it’s best to have someone with a different last name do it. Note that the Ministry of the Interior now offers a bilingual (Hebrew/English) birth certificate for the asking so you can save on translating that.
6) since you’re going to have to take the child(ren) to the states for the interview anyhow you might as well apply to a small processing center. Applying in New York LA or Miami could take several years till it all goes through. I applied through Philadelphia which is relatively small and it still took me almost 2 years. Someone else told me they did it through the Hartford Conneticuit office (which they said was an hour’s drive from NYC) and it all got done very quickly and in a friendly manner and I’ve heard similarthings about Rhode Island. In any case best to pick a place that nobody immigrates to. Coming from abroad means you have the right to apply to any field office anywhere in the US so check out the list here https://egov.immigration.gov/crisgwi/go?action=offices.type&OfficeLocator.office_type=SC and send your completed forms there along with xeroxes of the documents you intend to present to them as requested on the forms and listed by me above.
After a certain amount of time which can range anywhere from 3-4 months to 3-4 years depending in large part on what field office you apply to you’ll receive a letter from USCIS instructing you to appear before them at the field office with your child on a day they’ll set for you (usually about 3 months or so from when they send the letter). At that point you make your travel plans and submit a request to the embassy for a visa http://telaviv.usembassy.gov/consular/niv/Apply.aspx#1 and include a copy of your letter from the USCIS with your other documentation to the embassy. They’ll issue you a limited 60 day visa to take your child to the States for the interview.
The interview itself is a formality essentially. They’re not likely to invite you to come to the US unless they’re already convinced after reviewing the documentation you sent them that your case is sound. Of course they may want to check that you didn’t just create the documentation and that’s why it’s so important to have the original documentation with you. I don’t know what they do for older kids but for my kids who were all under 5 when I took them, they spoke exclusively to me, asked me basic questions about my dad’s documentation and then printed up naturalization certificates for the kids within an hour or so at which point they were US citizens.
One final note: in the interview letter they ask you to bring proof that thevidence of the applicant child’s entry into the US. What they want you to do is the following. On the plane they give you this white card to fill out about your plans for being in the country etc. When you go through border control they’ll take part of that card and leave you with the other part of it and stamp your kids passports (and yours) to show that you came through border control. The citizen parent should make a photocopy of the page in each applicant child’s passport that has that border control stamp on it and bring to the interview (with the other documentation of course). The interviewers appreciate that, especially since most people forget and then they’ve got to go photocopy the passport themselves – best to get them in a good mood right off by saving them the hassle. Naturally they should also bring the kids passports and that white card from the plane with them to the interview as well.
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notice as of May 1 2011
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As an experienced parent of 4 kids whose English is of the highest level I’m always being asked to advise on how I promote my kid’s extracurricular learning, especially through the televised media and have always been happy to do so by word of mouth, Now, I’ve been convinced that I should start blogging about my experience of using educational children’s television/DVDs to further my kids education, both linguistically and in other disciplines.
at www.tvteaches.com I will be personally reviewing the shows I’ve used as a parent with great success with my children and which I hope can serve as a useful resource for other parents including my visitors here.
While this blog is staying ad free as it always has been (except for the www.tvteaches.com plug) I’d of course be grateful if you visit my sponsors who advertise at www.tvteaches.com. I also have created a handpicked store at http://tvteaches.com/tv-teaches-kiducation-corner (reachable from the www.tvteaches site as well and through the page reviewing the shows in question) in which I’ve placed DVDs of these educational shows. Should you purchase via the site I of course receive a small kickback 
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Entry filed under: Guide, legal documentation, US. Tags: Citizenship, Grandparent, INS, US.
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1.
TBONE | April 29, 2007 at 12:33 am
A very good explanation for a terrible law.
2.
Sundararaj | July 1, 2010 at 11:19 pm
Hello,
I am planning to apply for my kids citizenship under n600k category. Could you acknowledge this mail mail once if you receive it. I appreciate your early reply.
Thanks.
Raj
3.
isranglo | May 2, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Tbone – thanks for the compliment on the explanation but why would you call it a terrible law? A convoluted process certainly but why a terrible law? Without it those of us who left the US at too young an age to pass on citizenship ourselves but old enough to feel patriotic enough to want our kids to have our US citizenship would be left with no recourse to obtain citizenship. If what you mean, however, is that things ought to be made a lot simpler (such as negating that pesky “2 years past the age of 14″ bit which makes no sense – why should someone who lived in the US from age 16-21 and then leaves get to pass on citizenship automatically while someone who lived there from birth till 15 doesn’t?!) then I’m with you!
4.
dennis hendrickson | July 20, 2007 at 4:59 am
Thanks for a lot of helpful info. You mention getting U.S. visas. Who needs them? The kiddies? How are they best gotten? Any cost involved or bureaucrapic hassel?
Again, thanks for your help.
Dennis
5.
isranglo | July 20, 2007 at 8:20 am
Since in order to get citizen the kids need to enter the States, ipso facto they won’t have a US passport to enter the US with. They need to enter with their native country’s passport and therefore need a visa.
If I recall correctly the cost is roughly in the hundred dollar range (unless it’s risen). In Israel you can call 171, the post office site, for more information. They have a special department for a courier service to the embassy. You send them your passport, a chit of payment from the post office showing you’ve paid (the larger post offices have them available) a copy of the letter ordering you to come to the US, a passport photo of the kid (I forget how many but it says on the form) and the form requesting a visa obtainable off the embassy site. You submit it all by courier and they’ll pick it up for you and return it with the visa inside.
6.
Yaniv Kaplan | November 12, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Thanks a lot. I heard this was an option however I was told it is complicated so I gave up before trying. I am in the exact same situation with my daughter.
The only thing is that it seems worth while to wait until you have all your kids and do them all in one shot (otherwise you will have to go over the procedure for each one, right?)
7.
isranglo | November 14, 2007 at 12:50 am
Yaniv
it’s more annoying than complicated but once you’ve done it once it’s basically resubmitting the same documents for yourself and your parent each time and submitting the new child’s documents as relevant to them.
No I’m afraid I wouldn’t advise your all in one shot deal for several reasons
1) do you know what a pain it is to take all those kids on a plane
2) Laws are always changing and there have been rumors around in recent years of them closing up the grandparent option. Do you really want to wait it out until the last kid only to discover the law was changed a year or 2 previously blocking off the option for those not already in the system?!
3) If you’re earning a non-American salary you can be eligible for up to $1000 per child per year from the US government till they turn 18(one of the reasons they’ve talked about closing the option I think) but it’s only retroactive for about 3 years. So lets say you have 4 kids, and now they’re ages 12, 9, 5 and infant. So no problem with the infant but you’ve lost as much as 17 thousand dollars on the other 3. Let’s just say that the thousand dollars I received on each kid just for the year in which I took them, more than covered the cost of both our round trip tickets to the US (by taking them before age 2 their ticket is like 10%), protected them from any future change in the law and provides a nice little sum per year till they turn 18.
4) the only reason to wait for them all to be born is if you want to go the other route of getting them citizenship which is to say you want to immigrate with them to the US, apply for citizenship for them on that basis, go to the US, pick up their citizenship and move back. As I understand it though that’s more complicated and could be problematic. You’d probably need an emigration lawyer to help you out which I didn’t need for the grandparent route.
8.
emma | June 16, 2008 at 10:03 pm
thanks for this info. please tell me how you can be eligible for $1000 for having a child as a US citizen
9.
Sharone | June 24, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Thank you very much for this information. It is very useful as I was unable to get the exact information from neither the US Embassy in Tel-Aviv website nor the USCIS one.
Are you sure that the grandparent option is still available?
One other question – Is it necessary to first apply for a Report of Birth from the US Embassy or can I just fill out the forms and use the Israeli Birth Certificate?
10.
ilona lerman | June 26, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Your explanation seems to clear up a very unclear procedure. I still have a few more questions.
1. As the citizen grandmother do I have to include MY marriage certificate?
2. Do I need to show all the times I spent in the states or only that I lived there 5 years including 2 years after 14?
3. Translation of a document by a friend is okay? Do I understand right that a notarization is not necessary?
Thanks in advance.
11.
Shiri | September 2, 2008 at 8:42 am
Hello,
I have done this procedure for my 2 children.
I want to know if there is an child age limit for this process. I mean do they have to be minors ? Under 18 or 21 ?
I am asking this for my brothers children.
Thanks,
Shiri
12.
isranglo | September 7, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Sharone
yes it’s still available as of the last time I checked which has been since your post.
As for the birth certificate you use obviously it must be the israeli birth certificate. If you were eligible to report your child at the embassy you wouldn’t need to go the grandparent route. The report of a child is to report an American child born to an american parent. your child isn’t an american child nor has automatic claim to it. If they do then they don’t need to go via the granddparent clause
13.
isranglo | September 16, 2008 at 11:52 am
Eamon
I wish I could be more encouraging but I’m afraid you’ve missed the boat on this law. Even if your mom might be able to make a case via her dad (and that’s highly unlikely through regula channels is my guess as she’d have likely have had to request it when young) you’re still too old to get anything from her via your grandfather being past age 26 yourself. The fact that your GF is deceased is another strike against you as the law tends to fluctuate such that it is often the case that they want the GF/GM alive when you apply. Wish I could be more encouraging but the GP law is very tenuous in terms of who they accept as it is even with kids whose parents are citizens and GPs are alive.
14.
Linda | September 18, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Hello Isranglo,
Bless your soul. You definately have a good heart explaining this N-600 K process step by step. This is a great help.
I had to make like 35 calls to the USCIS 1800 number to get only part of the info you are giving here. I would have loved to have seen this blog months ago(would have saved my a lot of agony )
I have submitted the N-600K for my 2 kids and am waiting for the interview at this time.
I have one question for you .
-Can you tell me the exact questions they asked during the interview?
Thanks for your help.
15.
Linda | September 19, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Hello Isranglo,
Bless your soul. You definately have a good heart explaining this N-600 K process step by step. This is a great help.
I had to make like 35 calls to the USCIS 1800 number to get only part of the info you are giving here. I would have loved to have seen this blog months ago(would have saved my a lot of agony )
I have submitted the N-600K for my 2 kids and am waiting for the interview at this time.
I have one question for you .
-Can you tell me the exact questions they asked during the interview?
Thanks for your help.
16.
Judith Guzman | September 23, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Hi Isranglo,
Thanks for all your insight. I have already filled the N-600K for my two daugthers. Can you tell me exactly which were the questions the adjudicator asked you during the interview.
I want to be prepared for when I have to travel for the interview.
Thanks,
Judith
17.
Linda | September 24, 2008 at 12:02 am
Isranglo,
Judith is standing right next to me.
Thank you for responding.
Great help!
Thanks,
Linda
18.
isranglo | October 12, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Michal
. If you want to stay by relatives you’re already limited anyhow to a reasonable radius from where you’re staying (appointments tend to be in the morning).
I suppose presumably it would be possible but 1) could cause confusion 2) might cause more problems than it will help and 3) to submit an application costs about 400 dollars now. i know the dollar’s dropped against the shekel (and almost everything else) but I’m not really sure you want to send 400 dollars a bunch of times for them to process you in different places.
Just send to a not so busy office and it should get done relatively fast. If you don’t care about where you go (you plan to stay at a motel or something) go somewhere like Idaho or Kansas or who knows where where noone would immigrate and where noone outside of those towns have relatives outside the state
Just stay away from coastal centers like New York New Jersey, LA, Miami etc. where there are large immigrant populations because EVERYONE doing this is sending to there so they can stay with their cuban/irish/italian/name your immigrant group relatives
19.
dude | October 23, 2008 at 11:13 pm
out of curiosity, how did you get hold of this info?
20.
isranglo | October 27, 2008 at 12:05 am
dude
1) the immigration service’s website
2) people who went through it before me
3) I’ve been through it myself twice
4) when people go through it and find that things have changed they’ll alert me as to significant changes
21.
isranglo | October 27, 2008 at 12:12 am
update
A friend who just applied to naturalize her children passed on a letter she received in reply from them. A couple of changes worth noting as of (apparently) mid-2007
1) diplomas from recognized institutions are no longer good for the period of the study unless accompanied by actual transcripts. From what I can understand they’ll give you credit for one year per diploma but no more than that without the grades. So if like me you have the parent’s high school, BA, MA and PHD certificates (formerly proving WELL above the 5 years necessary of residence) you still need to prove anoter year.
2) they’re asking for all translations now to be official, certified translations. It doesn’t say notarized so it’s not clear official from whom or certified in what way.
22.
Raeanne | November 17, 2008 at 10:29 am
Wow, I love this! My Grandma grewup in the States and appeantly my Aunt is trying to help her get citizen for my Dad and siblings. My Dad figured that they wouldn’t have a problem… and mentioned that I might be able to get it from him. Reading this, obviously makes me realize that its almost impossible for me since Im 20 years old. Kinda sucks, but glad I know now instead of paying out $400 to apply and be denied. Thanks
23.
isranglo | November 17, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Raeanne
well I’m glad I saved you the money – wish I could have been more helpful about the citizenship. One thing you should note about this though is that even to give your younger siblings citizenship via a grandparent its critical taht your father have the citizenship before they do. You might also want to have him make sure as to whether they can still be elegible if he wasn’t a citizen at the time they were born. I didn’t see anything to contradict that but for some reason I can’t quite explain I seem to remember seeing somewhere that there might be a problem there.
24.
Sue | February 2, 2009 at 1:44 pm
I have filled in form N600k for my 16 year old son to get citizenship through his grandparent (my deceased Dad).
What is the best way to send the $460 to the USCIS in the U.S.?
25.
Ilan | February 3, 2009 at 12:11 pm
you are very kind to share this experience and information. Thank you. I am starting the application process. Maybe you can help me with some specifics if you know these answers or where I may turn to for them.
1. My kids are all Israeli and Canadian citizens already. The oldest was born in Canada and made ALiyah with my wife and I when he was 14 months. The other three were all born in Israel and we applied and received citizenship for all of them in Canada. We all live in Israel. So, do I need to provide proof of citizenship for both countries? Also, my son who was born in Canada is Jeremy Tzvi in Canada but just Tzvi in Israel. Any idea what I should put in the application form?
2. I would like to apply in Buffalo. Our families live in Toronto Canada, so we would plan to fly to Toronto and just drive across the border to Buffalo the day of our meeting. However, we usually don’t get stopped at the border when driving through – we just go. Do we need to stop and ask for some proof of crossing into the US for our kids and should we be telling them at the border the purpose of our visit for citizenship in the US?
26.
isranglo | February 5, 2009 at 10:59 am
Ilan
1. Not sure what to do about the name issue – that could be tricky – I believe though that his Israeli passport has the name written one way in English and the other in Hebrew and that might be able to constitute proof that it’s the same person. In any case keep in mind that a) the important thing isn’t proving his Canadian or Israeli citizenships but proving he has a right to an American one and therefore b) that you have the proper documentation to support that. It’s also not clear to me from what you wrote whether you’re trying to apply through a grandparent or have the right to pass on the citizenship yourself.
2. You WANT to stop at the border to get stamped. Part of obtaining US citizenship for a foreigner whether through immigration or through the grandparent clause is to prove that he’s been on US soil. That’s really the main reason they call you to the US for the interview. Otherwise they could just train someone at the local US embassy to do it. Definitely tell them the reason and make sure they stamp (Jeremy) Tzvi’s passport as having entered there.
27.
DC Mobile | February 5, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Isranglo,
Thanks for the quick response and sharing your past experience at this stage. I am going to the Buffalo office and hopefully all goes well.
Thanks again
28.
ben elias | February 7, 2009 at 5:49 pm
We have been looking at your blog and it seemed to us that you seem to be the best informed nin-governmental source available.
We are planning to take our two children to the states in August (if that proves practical) to establish their US citizenship.
I could be grateful if you could respond to my e-mail address.
29.
ger | February 10, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Hi,
This is a very insightful blog.
My kids have been called for an interview and I plan on giving a date about 2 months out to try and ensure it would be available.
Thanks.
Ger.
30.
isranglo | February 11, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Ger
Thanks – glad you’ve found it useful. Good Luck!
31.
DC Mobile | February 11, 2009 at 6:45 pm
WOW…My children (11 & 14) have now received US citizenship certificates from the Buffalo field office on Feb 10, 2009.
Regards…DC
32.
ilan kazin | February 18, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Shalom and Thank You,
My question is this. I was born in Israel and received my American passport from my deceased father (does it matter how long ago he died?). If he is no longer alive is there a point of applying in his name? (i have proof of him living there 5 years, 2 of which were after 14).
Thanks alot
Ilan
33.
Sharon | February 27, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Hi, great explanation-thanks a lot!
I would like a clarification regarding the “proof that you have custody of your child” – I understand that you got a printout (15 shekels apiece) from the Interior Ministry’s census registry which showed that you and your kids have the same address and that you are living with their mother and am married.
How can I get this printout? do I have to go there myself and request it or can it be done online? is it really necessary?
34.
isranglo | March 13, 2009 at 11:29 am
Sharon
Your case number when applying for citizenship is called your A number because it’s a code beginning with an A. Whether it’s later printed on the certificate or not I don’t know though because this is the first time they’ve ever bothered to tell me what my A number was. In the past for who knows what reason they just dealt with my case without giving me any acknowledgement of it until they sent me the letter to come for the interview so I never knew what my kids’ A numbers were. If it’s not on the certificate though I don’t have a clue of why you’d be expected to remember it now! I’d suggest calling their service center number listed on the http://www.uscis.gov site and asking there.
35.
Assaf | March 16, 2009 at 10:26 am
Hi. can’t tell you how much ya helped us.
tnx again !
36.
isranglo | March 16, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Assaf
. As to your questions
glad to help
1) there is no hard and fast rule as to what’s acceptable proof but yes official grade reports are probably the closest you can get to “guaranteed,” especially since they say you MUST have them in order to get credit for individual school years of a degree (it used to be, for example, that having a BA gave you an automatic 4 years but now it’s only worth 1 unless you have grade transcriptions).
2) no guarantees but traditionally Buffalo, Rhode Island and Hartford are all supposed to be relatively quiet offices.
37.
assaf | March 18, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Hi again.
We are filling in the form. Just to be sure:
My wife is a US citizen, through birth in Israel to a US citizen parent and does not fulfil the conditions (did not live 5 years in the US at least 2 of which came after the age of 14).
Her mother is the US citizen GP, fulfiling the mentioned conditions of living in the US.
Who should be applying on behalf of our kids – my wife, (the US citizen parent) OR the US citizen GP ?
Part 5 of the n600k form got me mixed up…
tnx.
38.
Martin | March 22, 2009 at 2:28 pm
What a useful blog!!! Your patient and knowledgeable answers are an inspiration.
If you were looking at using USCIS offices in Portland, Maine or Manchester, New Hampshire which would you prefer for getting an appointment as soon as possible?
39.
isranglo | March 24, 2009 at 4:33 pm
thanks Martin
Though i haven’t used them I’m guessing that both of those offices are going to get you in fast as they’re not near any major immigrant areas that would tend to attract people looking to combine their citizenship trip with a visit to relatives. To my knowledge neither of those places has a major immigration draw of any sort so it should go quite fast.
40.
ASSAF | April 2, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Hi.
We are filing the forms for both our children.
We want the same office and interview date for both..
how should we file? two seperate envelopes, each with all the documents, or both together in one envelope ?
thank you so much !
41.
ASSAF | April 20, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Hi,
any knowledge of the Atlanta USCIS field office ?
Is it crowded ?
TNX!
42.
Ben | May 6, 2009 at 12:28 am
Thanks for the very useful blog post… I’m currently looking to go down the N-600K route for my son and have been a bit overwhelmed by the difficult procedure and lack of information. The US embassy in Cairo gave me utterly incorrect information each time on three separate visits.
43.
shmuel | May 27, 2009 at 12:33 pm
I did a N600k application 2 years ago at Philadelphia for 10 grandchildren and it went very smoothly (4 one time and 6 two weeks later)
For proof of my residency they accepted the accompanying form to the report of a birth abroad for my children, ( the applicants parents) which stated the times that I lived in the States.
They said if it was approved by the State Department then it was good enough for them. I did bring along my transcripts, yearbooks and even graduation invitation just in case but never had to use it.
It took about 3 months for the appointment and they were very nice, I sent in a new application for a new grandchild and am awaiting notification of scheduling
One thing not mentioned is that if you want to get the tax credit you need a social security number and that is obtained at the Social Security office which is a whole new ballgame. It can be done on the same day after receiving the citizenship papers on a walk in basis.
In Philadelphia they would not accept a US passport as proof of birth and required a birth certificate so you have to have all your papers with you when you go there. There is no fee involved, download the forms in advance, and it should take about a half hour once you get to the clerk.
44.
isranglo | June 7, 2009 at 11:46 am
Thanks Shmuel – great post. allow me to caution though that while you and i didn’t have to show our documentation, Murphy’s law states that if we ever DIDN’T make sure to have it all, that would be when they asked for it. Better overprepared then under but you’re right that there’s no need for panic. They’re generally not people to travel to the US unless they think you already have a strong case.
I was in the social security office in Philly too and I should note that they asked for 2 forms of ID and allowed the Israeli passport to be one of them. However, I’d basically say that if you just take everything to the citizenship interview with you in a ring binder with sheets as I did (a section for birth certificates, another for marriage certificates, passports etc.) take the binder to social security with you too and you’ll have everything you need there and more.
True, that while I always get the social security number while there, I didn’t actually discuss it here. the reason was because the post was a guide towards the citizenship and I wanted to at least TRY and focus on that part. That said, your point is a good one – it’s also less of a hassle to get it while there than to run over to the embassy (unles you live in Tel Aviv perhaps).
45.
zaze | June 12, 2009 at 4:13 am
Thanks Isranglo for all your advice. We applied 6months go and received an email this week to say “The children’s files have been preliminarily reviewed. We would like to set up an interview with you and your children here in our Albany office.” Does this mean that we are through!! Also what is this tax credit that you can get for your children, can anyone explain further
46.
shmuel | September 3, 2009 at 12:51 pm
I went to Phili again this July and there were new people there. They would not accept the State department form 240 as sole proof of my residency and asked for transcripts diplomas etc
Of course I always carry a complete file of original documents and it was no problem.
The entire interview took 20 minutes with a kind and professional staff. Social Security was also no problem
In general if you are looking for a location do not believe the USCIS website for application times. From personal experience it is generally not correct and it is best to try to contact the office and get a feel for times
47.
Randel | September 3, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Thank for the new info, shmuel. Glad to hear it went well. What exactly is a State department form 240? Did the authorities in Phili want current proof of your of your exact home address abroad, or did they merely want proof that you live abroad? What sort of transcripts, diplomas, etc did you have to show them to prove your present residency abroad? I am just about finished with putting together my N-600K app for my little boy and — regarding proof of my present residency (in Germany) — I hope that a document from the local registration authority stating my current home address will suffice. One more thing: did you actually call the Phili office and talk with them about approximate application/waiting times? Were they actually willing to talk abou this (which would contradict what I have read about this elsewhere online)?
48.
assaf | June 11, 2009 at 8:23 am
Hi – A month ago i sent my kids n600k forms to the Providence office in RI.
this is the email reply i recieved:
The cases for your children have been pre-approved. Please provide me with dates that you and your children will be able to visit the United States to receive the certificates.
49.
assaf | June 16, 2009 at 9:12 am
We have been re approved by the Providence RI office.
They aked us what dates we would want to come with the kids, and gave us the instructions regarding the Info pass appointment. You need to have an appointment for each child. Also, you cannot make the appointments until two weeks prior to the date you wish to visit the office. For example, if you wish to come on September 21 you need to wait until September 7 to make the Info pass appointment.
50.
Martin | July 22, 2009 at 6:14 am
Hi, I came back again because I have filed for my 2 grandchildren at the Portland, Maine field office. From what I could glean from the USCIS site, it will be at least 6 months until they get around to our applications. Meantime, since I will be visiting (by myself) in the states and am to meet the accountant that takes care of my IRS issues. He mentioned to my brother the $1000 per child idea. Aside from getting Social Security numbers for the kids, what other procedures are involved? If you prefer to relate to this not in this blog, I’d be happy to have a mail from you with whatever you can contribute. Thanks again for your “crusading efforts!!”
51.
itman | July 26, 2009 at 1:55 am
Hi isranglo,
Thanks for a wonderful job on presenting this info in such a thorough yet precise and digestible way (and entertaining, which is no mean feat, subject matter being bureaucracy)
Much appreciated!
Blessings,
I
52.
isranglo | July 29, 2009 at 9:41 pm
generally speaking once you’ve gotten an invitation (and assuming your original documentation is in your hands and not forged
) you’re through and the interview (at least for younger kids which is what I have experience of) is a formality.
The tax credit is for up to $1000 per child per year. Make sure to get a social security number while in the States (less of a hassle than doing it here I’ve found) and speak to an accountant who deals with the tax credit issue. Here in Israel for example I found a fellow who specializes specifically in this.
As a US citizen you’re legally obligated to file tax forms even while abroad. This is even if you make nothing ot not enough to pay US taxes. But the plus side is that you’re also entitled to tax credit.If you owe nothing but are eligible for child credit they give you a refund and a refund off nothing means money for you.
53.
isranglo | July 29, 2009 at 9:43 pm
itman
. I’ve found that if you can’t laugh about bureaucracy than you end up tearing your hair off and gnawing your leg off and the hat and prosthetic leg are such a pain…:-)
thanks – much appreciated
54.
isranglo | July 29, 2009 at 9:47 pm
A friend I helped who just came back from the Conneticuit office wrote to tell me that everything went so smoothly she was in and out in under and hour. They were very friendly and they didn’t even ask to look at any documents
Meantime I’m heading off to the States in just a few hours with an appointment scheduled for next week. If any of you are scheduled to report to the Portland Oregon office a week from sunday I’ll be the one with the especially cute baby
. I’ll report on my experience when I get back.
55.
zaze | August 1, 2009 at 3:12 am
HI . I HAVE an appt in 2 weeks time. can i ask, are the children ok to fly back and apply for the us paspsort back at the embassy?
56.
Randel | August 30, 2009 at 12:03 am
Hello Isranglo (and all visitors to this Website who read this message). Very helpful Website. I have just about completed the N-600K application for my little boy. One question about the $460 filing fee: did you send a money order? We are based in Germany and I am planning to try and get/purchase (in Germany) an international money order, since I do not have a bank account in the US. Any info on this matter would be very helpful. Thanks.
57.
isranglo | August 30, 2009 at 11:34 am
ok people sorry so long but I’ve just been to the States to get another child citizenship and I’ll soon be posting my experiences in the Portland Oregon office.
meantime to touch on the questions above
1) According to a friend’s friend who I spoke to while in the states (albeit too late to help my paranoiac worries) and who works for border control there’s no need to do the passport in the US and even if you do you should still take the kid out on the israeli passport so they can close the I-94 on them.
2) as to the fee I’ve always found that almost anyplace where there are Americans who want this for their (grand)kids said expats tend to know a lot of other expats and there’s almost always someone in the community (usually many) that keep an American account (for business reasons or whatever). I try and find someone like that and have them write a check for me to homeland security for the fee and then depending on how they prefer it and how close I am to them either pay them the amount in the local currency on the spot or have them tell me when the check is cashed by homeland security and pay them then by that day’s exchange rate. I’ve never had trouble finding someone willing to lend a hand with that especially if you offer to pay them back up front.
58.
zaze | September 1, 2009 at 11:21 am
does it mattert if the us granparent is deceased for the l;ast 5 years but was a citizen for 15 years?
59.
Arinak | August 30, 2009 at 6:16 pm
HELLO!
We heard about this possibility about three years ago and it has taken me two years of research, phone calls and surfing to try to gather all of the correct information.
Finally ( thanks to a friend who was trying to help me fill in the forms) we have found a source with detailed” how to” information!
I would like to repeat what others have said: THANK YOU so much for sharing your knowledge and for keeping this going.
We are applying for our three children, ( also Canadian and Israeli) and were going to do it through Baltimore , but now will look into the Buffalo office.
As well, since we are unable to get someone to give us checks from a US bank, has anyone written a money order from an Israeli Bank? Do we need to send a money order for each application or can we send one that covers the cost of three?
Good luck to everyone and again, thank you !
60.
konrad | September 6, 2009 at 1:34 am
hi, i heard about this grandparent rule a month ago and I am very interested. My grandmother became an american citizen in 1932 at the age of 27, voted in the presidential elections in1933 and returned home after 11years and died in 1994. I am 23years now and I am not sure if I am intitled to this citizenship rule. Is this only applied to young grandchildern ie. 16years and under? or can any grandchild apply no matter what age old or young? I would be very very grateful if you could help me on this matter.
61.
isranglo | September 8, 2009 at 8:55 pm
as far as I know the grandparent has to be alive at the time of the filing at least if not at the time of the interview but the rule there is hazy and seems to switch at various times.
In any event though the offer is only valid assuming 1) the applicant’s parent (grandparent’s child) has citizenship (even though they’re not able to pass it on themselves due to not fulfilling other requirements 2) the applicant is under 18 at the time of application.
62.
isranglo | September 8, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Arinak
.
thanks for the compliment – I do what I can to help
Now…
1) obtaining a 3rd citizenship can be tricky in any case. You have to be sure all the nationalities allow it or at least the one you’re applying for doesn’t mind. Not sure how Canada feels about dual citizenships in general and with the US in particular but more important is how the US feels about Canadians applying for US citizenship
2) you can definitely pay for all 3 at once but only if you send all 3 at once. Remember that homeland security requires that you submit a seperate application for each applicant. My response was to do so, put each sheaf of papers in a separate envelope, and then put the kids (in your case 3) envelopes into a larger envelope. In the larger envelope you’ll include a letter asking to have your appointments assigned to the same case officer and scheduled for the same day and payment covering all of their fees.
3) I don’t know where you live but most decent sized cities in israel have city lists such as janglo and raananalist etc. I’ll bet if you explained your issue onlist and offered to pay upfront you’d find someone willing to help out with a check. I’m afraid I know nothing about money orders.
63.
Richard | October 2, 2009 at 4:59 am
This information has been a great help. Tx so much for making it available. I have been living outside the US for many years, and have minor children. Can you please explain in more detail the steps/process involved in applying for the $1000 per year amount per child. How does one go about it, and are there any “cons” involved. i.e. if up to now I haven’t been filing tax returns, but start all of sudden, might that create potential problems etc? I am not doing business for profit, but running a charitable foundation. Thank you.
64.
Candy | October 9, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Thank you for the great advice you give! It is by far the most informative web source on the N-600K process I have found!
I am applying for my 7 year old son (as his US citizen parent) and have the physical presence requirements already (got the 5 years AFTER he was born). Will be applying at the Buffalo office…
My questions were:
a) which section of the N-600K form does the citizen parent sign? Part 7 or Part 8?
b) For those who applied at Buffalo… what was the processing time from receipt of the application to the time you went for the interview? Am told it is about 6 months….
65.
Assaf | October 11, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Hi.
Came back from Providence RI, with my citizen kids… The process went smooth & quick.
We filed the applications for the Social security cards in Providence, but have’nt received yet the cards/numbers.
My question: Can we file the Passport requests in the embassy in Tel Aviv, before we recieve the Social security number ?
TNX!
66.
Moira | October 15, 2009 at 9:49 am
I’m going down this route with my 15 year old son in the UK. I’m an American born woman married to a Brit but I’ve only got 10 months residence as I was a baby when we left.
My father lived in the US from his birth till we left the US in 1955. Both my parents are now dead and my mother destroyed much of my father’s documentation. To prove his residence I have gone for his original first passport application available from the Department of State and have a copy of his Social Security Number application when he was 16. The passport application is a certified copy. I’m taking the view that he couldn’t have left the country without a passport from his birth till he got his first one. The officials I have dealt with have been optimistic that this will be acceptable.
Another question. can you change the appointment date when you get it? My son is in a crucial year in the UK education system and with both exam’s and continmuous assessment I can’t take him out of school – even at 3 month’s notice. The next two years are similar as they have important exams and course work until they are 18.
Has anyone else gone down this route?
And thanks for the info about the offices to use. I had been planning New York, on the assumption that you had to go back to where you were born.
67.
Darcie | September 16, 2010 at 6:03 am
Just wondering whether the use of the birth certificate through passport application “bookend” strategy worked for you to prove physical presence? I am assisting a friend in getting her citizenship approved, and we would like to use the same strategy to show her father’s physical presence for the required period before her birth in 1970.
68.
TranquilityBase | October 19, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Very interesting information – referred to me by a lawyer!
My situation is a bit different. My Grandfather lives in the USA, and I’m an adult living in the UK. I’ve been advised that the route mentioned here is the best way forward for me, but would the forms required be different?
The form here seems to be for a parent to fill in for a child, not for child-now-adult seeking to make the application himself.
Any pointers here?
69.
sister mo | October 23, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Hi!
Thanks so much for keeping up this blog for such a topic! As mentioned before it is indeed a most valuable resource on the matter.
A question: Can this process take place, if the grandparent is a citizen (and fulfills all the requirements), but the parent of the grandchild isn’t a citizen?
the longer story goes like this: The grandparent is a US citizen for many years, and issued a Greencard for her adult son. The son lived for a few months in the US, then returned to Israel and the Greencard was physically lost. The son did not bother replacing it. Now, after a few years the son found himself completing 4 years of relocation in the US, on a visa. He has 2 kids who were born before the relocation in Israel. The son is NOT a citizen. His mother (the grandparent) IS. Is there a way that she can transfer the citizenship to the grandchildren?
If indeed so: the grandmother lives in NY, NY. The son and grandchildren in Denver, CO. where should they file?
Thank you so much in advance
& Shabat Shalom
70.
Martin | October 25, 2009 at 6:51 am
We returned erev Succoth, but only now did I find time to share this. We applied for 2 kids (1 and 3 yrs.) at the Portland Maine office,. The appointment in South Portland, Maine was set up in very good time (the receipt for payment is dated June 1 and the invitation letter is dated August 1 for the appointment on September 29). Being less than 2 hours from Boston, it is a nice option for anyone having reason to be in that area of the country. The office itself was well organized and efficient, the officer who interviewed us was polite and basically, we were out of there with our two certificates of citizenship and little American flags for the kids in about an hour and a half. As already discussed here in the blog, the original documents we brought were not requested, and the photo copy of the immigration cards was duly appreciated.
We applied for our Social Security numbers the same day at the Portland, ME office, and that took only about 1/2 an hour, including our wait in line to get to the counter.
Once again, I wanted to thank you personally for your valuable blog.
71.
Yaniv Kaplan | October 27, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Hi,
This is Yaniv (back from comment 5 two years back…)
Till this date I have done nothing (was abroad) but I have decided to do this now.
I have a question – why do you state I need to provide my father’s birth certificate? I am reading the N-600K instructions and from what I see they ask only for my birth certificate.
I am asking since I have a hard time believing I can ever find my father’s birth certificate…
Thanks,
Yaniv
72.
Jonathan | November 3, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Isranglo, thanks a lot for your all the information you give.
I am working on collecting all the forms for the Grandparent citizenship.
I had two quests:
1. My Dad has two doctor’s degrees from US universities. Is this enough to prove that he lived in the US for 5 years? It take more than 5 years to become a doctor!
2. Regarding my marriage certificate: did you just translate it or did you go to the rabanot in Jerusalem to get it signed and authorized by them?
Thanks a million,
Jonathan
73.
kell | November 4, 2009 at 7:50 pm
My father is a US citizen, but has never lived in the US. My grandparents were both US citizens and my grandfather meets the residency requirements, but they are both deceased. I am 32 years old. Is there any way or chance of getting my case approved?
74.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 3:46 pm
ok first let me apologize for taking so long with both answering questions and with posting my report about my most recent trip to get citizenship for a child in Oregon. Between getting back from the trip, the schoolyear starting, the Jewish holidays and recently computer issues I just haven’t gotten a chance so now I’m going to try and catch up on some past stuff. I’ll start with your questions…
75.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Yaniv
. If they were naturalized and you have their certificate of naturalization you might still need a birth certificate but it will likely be less important. But just proving they lived in the US doesn’t necessarily prove they’re a US citizenship. They could have snuck over the border from mexico as so many do…:-). And yes I’ve always had the officers ask about where my dad was born in both offices I went to for the interview.
The N600k is dependent on the citizen grandparent’s having fulfilled all the requirements that would be requested of a parent were the parent able to pass on the citizenship personally. therefore as part of your parent’s documentation you have to show their right to US citizenship based on the claim you’re making that they have such citizenship. In otherwords either a US birth certificate or a certificate of naturalization. If your parent is US born you’ll have trouble proving they’re naturalized since they weren’t
So to the more important question which is, what do you do if you’re missing yours? Well these things are usually kept on record somewhere. Possibly city hall of the town where he was born or perhaps some other recors office. I don’t know where he’s from but I’m guessing if you got online and typed the state name (or city name if it’s a large city) and keywords like “birth certificate” you could find out where to obtain a copy of said certificate.
76.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Moira
your story underlines an interesting problem with the whole process which is that there’s a lot that NOONE can tell you about what will/won’t be acceptable. There’s a lot of gray area where officials can decide to accept or not accept the proofs you give. For example I asked about their requirement to prove that the child is in your custody. For a divorced couple that’s no problem: there are papers attesting to it. But to a married person go prove that your kid’s in your custody! It’s so self evident you’d think you wouldn’t need to but when I asked them about it they just said “well you’ll have to bring whatever you can think of to prove it.” Therefore it’s possible that your argument will work and a case officer could certainly legally let it through as far as I understand…but only if they want to. It’s in their hands and so you’ll just have to trust to getting a sensible case officer if you can’t find more solid evidence.
As for changing the date I never had any trouble with that in the offices I went to (Philadelphia and Portland) but I’ve been told that in other places there are problems though I can’t recall specifically which offices gave no option to change.
and yes at any event if you can help it avoid the large field ofices.
77.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Tranquility
.
I’m flattered to hear that lawyers are referring people to me as a source considering I have no academic standing in the area – but of course go through a process enough times and you learn things academics don’t teach you
I wish I could be of more help but I’m afriad you’re right. The N600K is for minors wishing to apply via a grandparent. Once you hit 18 this isn’t the right form. I’ve been trying for a long time to answer your question for a cousin of mine who’s in the same position and have met with a solid “can’t be done through grandparent transference” in every direction. However if your grandparent lives in the USA you may be able to apply through the regular immigration system with him as your sponsor. The fact that you could have done it pre-adulthood would probably strengthen your claim at least to a green card over other weaker cases. If you somehow find a way to get transference through a grandparent even once adult be sure to write and let me know as the question is often asked here.
78.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 6:02 pm
sister Mo
).
wow that’s a complex one – you may need a lawyer this time but let me at least tackle what I can (besides the shabbat shalom which since it’s thursday now I can still answer likewise
so first of all about the green card I’m not so sure the physical card is what matters as that can probably be accessed through government files. The question really is whether he broke the terms of the green card which requires, to my understanding, a minimal presence in the US for a certain succesive period of time. Any kids born in Israel before the relocation to the US would likely not be eligible via the N600k as the parent was certainly not a citizen at the time of their birth but they may be able to claim citizenship automatically should their father (if he becomes a US citizen while they’re still minors) choose to “immigrate” with them to the US (though he may of course choose to cancel the “move” once they’re given the citizenship).
In any event until the son has citizenship the N600k shouldn’t work for them – sorry, but the citizenship chain is necessary.
79.
sister mo | November 5, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Thank you so much for your reply. It was definitely enlightening and explains the way to go…
Shabat Shalom again
ps: i have entered another post, the same, as I thought that this one was not accepted. please delete it if you haven’t already…
80.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Jonathan
Glad to help.
1) the answer alas is no. The 2 degrees would have been good until a couple of years ago and worked for my first 3 kids. Unfortunately, a couple of years ago (maybe less) a new law came into effect whereby you could no longer just hand over a BA degree (4 years in the states) and have it count for 4 years. Pity as it was very convenient.
if you want to have a degree considered for more than one year you have to provide official transcripts from the institution of study for all the years you want counted. The degree alone will only count for 1 year without the transcripts.
2) the Rabbanut translate it? Lord help us all? With all the Shas and Aguda appointees there you’d be hard pressed to get a translation unless it was into yiddish maybe
. Anyone is allowed to translate your documents (though it’s best to steer away from self-translation or having a relative of the same name do it) as long as they attach to it a written statement wherein they affirm their knowledge of both languages and their competence to translate from one to the other and sign their names and put their details there in case any contact is needed (noone’s EVER contacted my translator but one does it for form’s sake).
81.
Jonathan | November 7, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Thanks for answering so quickly.
My Dad gave me three degrees he has spanning graduations from 1964 till 1969. he also found his graduation year book from one of his universities. Also on his marriage certificate it says that he got marriade in the US in 1963. so I have 6 years of proof. Do you think that will cut it?
Also he can’t find his birth certificate although he has a US passport and in his marriage certificate it says that he was born in the US. Does he have to have his birth certificate per say? or are these enough.
I asked about the rabbanot drill, because I heard of Israeli’s who got it signed by the ministry of relegion in Jerusalem and then had the whole thing translated. good to hear that that is uneccesary.
Thanks again
82.
isranglo | November 5, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Kell
I’m afraid it’s that last bit which is the killer. the N600k as far as I know only applies to minors (up to age 18). Were you 15 years younger you’d be almost a shoo-in for citizenship alas I’m afraid you waited too long. On the up side should you decide to apply though regular channels the fact that you had this option may improve your argument for immigration over people without this background, especially if you have a relative taht will sponsor you.
83.
Yaniv Kaplan | November 5, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Hi,
My father was not born in the US, he was naturalized. Won’t my father’s passport do the trick to prove he is a US citizen??? Isn’t that what that means?
Thanks,
Yaniv
84.
RB | November 17, 2009 at 12:20 am
Hello Everyone! Hope you are all well. In early Sept 2009, I finally sent the N-600k application for my 3-year-old little boy (German citizen, born and living with my wife and me in Frankfurt, Germany) to the USCIS office in Charlotte, NC, and only FOUR weeks later I was contacted by email and asked when I planned to travel to Charlotte! Wow, guess the Charlotte office is really on the ball! My son and I will travel to Charlotte later this week. I was pretty much able to choose the week and day for the interview (i.e. Nov 23).
HERE IS MY QUESTION: I noticed that some/many of you, when you travelled over for the N-600k interview, immediately followed up with visits/meetings to other offices to obtain your child’s Social Security Number and/or US passport. Would you recommend that I try and obtain these while in Charlotte, or can it wail till I return to to Frankfurt (i.e. via the US Consulate in Frankfurt)? THANKS! RB
85.
Moira | November 21, 2009 at 6:18 pm
I’ve just had a copy of my father”s original passport application, duly certified by the State Department, and with both his and my birth certificates attached. Suggest this is a good way to get your documentary evidence. Obviously as it was don in 1955 things may have changed a bit but the case officer checked if I wanted copies of any subsequent applications for me or him.
Just about to send everything off to the Rhode Island Office. will report back on progress.
86.
Moira | November 21, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Just noticed the thread on Social Security numbers. I’ve never had one and it has never been a problem getting a pssport – even an emergency one when it has been stolen.
87.
Carmen Malacara | November 28, 2009 at 6:21 pm
I cannot locate the address where to send the grandparent’s N600K form. Since I would like to choose the office nearest me, can you tell me where I can find the addresses where I can sen the forms?
Your blog was very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to give us the information on your experience.
Carmen
88.
isranglo | December 3, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Carmen
this was a tough one but I finally tracked it down at
https://egov.uscis.gov/crisgwi/go?action=offices
hope this helps. If not let me know where you want to apply to and I’ll track down the relevant field office
89.
isranglo | December 3, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Moira
that’s amazing to hear. It’s a basic on every passport form I ever recall seeing. Perhaps there are forms that don’t require it or perhaps it becomes more of an issue now when applying for a child’s passport. In any event I did it recently and it was required.
90.
Moira | May 4, 2010 at 9:24 am
Only just catching up on this blog. Just to say that although the passport application form has a slot for SS number it does not have to be filled in. I do not have a SSN and have never had a problem with getting a passport.
You don’t need one until you plan to work or live in the US – unless you earn so much money you need to file US tax returns.
91.
isranglo | December 3, 2009 at 1:07 pm
RB
it can be done back in Germany but it can be a hassle and is often more expensive than if you do it in the US. However there shouldn’t be a problem leaving the US without the child’s US passport even though he’s now a citizen and theoretically is expected to leave the country on the US passport. However from what I’ve been told by someone in customs you had best leave the country on the same document you entered it with (even if you have the US passport) as otherwise it plays havoc with their filing.
92.
RB | December 3, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Hello Isranglo,
Thanks for your reply. Got back from Charlotte last Saturday. The n600k interview went very well and took only 30 minutes (early last week). We walked out with the certificate for US citizenship for my 3-year-old son. Next day, we tried (on a walk-in basis) to obtain a social security number for him, yet the social security office was totally jammed with people and I decided to wait till we got back to frankfurt to apply for the social security number and then a US passport (which I will at the US consulate). In any event, now my little boy has US and European Union citizenship, which is certainly really nice to have (and which I unfortunately cannot obtain, as the German authorities will quickly grant me German citizenship, yet demand that I give up my US citizenship).
One more thing. I must say that the USCIS authorities in Charlotte were very helpful and friendly. After I sent in the n600k application by mail, I received an email only 4 weeks later asking when I was planning to come over. I was also asked to provide a US address, which I was fortunately able to do (namely, my brother’s address in Charlotte, where we were staying). STRANGELY ENOUGH, during the interview last week, I was told that the US address I provided would be put on my son’s certificate, which it was. I politely questioned why that was necessary, as we permanently reside in Frankfurt, Germany, yet the USCIS person interviewing us simply told me that it had to be this way. I still doubt if this correct, as the whole point of the n600k process is for people who do NOT reside in the US. In my case, I wonder what would have happened if I had been staying at a hotel and was not able to provide a US address. HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD THIS EXPERIENCE (i.e. of a US address being entered on the certificate)?
93.
TranquilityBase | December 3, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Is there any way to speak to USCIS on the phone for advice, or else to contact them via mail/email? Being a grandchild myself but somewhat older than 18 puts me in a very difficult position. Short of paying lawyer hundreds of pounds just to sit down and talk to them for half an hour, I am kinda wondering where I can go next.
94.
draipleArrava | December 12, 2009 at 12:48 am
Stunning… really stunning subject. I will blog about it as well!!
95.
Arinak | December 17, 2009 at 10:21 am
Hi,
Still haven’t sent in applications as my Dad can’t find his certificate of Naturalization. He will be in the States soon so will go and apply for a copy.
I would be very interested in getting in touch with the family who in February 2009 was inquiring about applying for their kids also Israeli and Canadian citizens like mine.( Ilan | February 3, 2009 at 12:11 pm) We have done a little research and there shouldn’t be a problem with them having the other two citizenship already. But if I can hear that someone else has already done it successfully, I would feel more comfortable.
Thank you for your continuous support
96.
Avi | December 29, 2009 at 2:23 pm
One word of warning –
If you are flying to get citizenship to get the child tax refunds of up to $1000 per child, talk to a legitimate preparer first. Your naturalization papers state that the citizenship is from date of issue, not from when the child is born. Therefore retroactive filings are not recommended.
97.
Jonathan | December 29, 2009 at 3:05 pm
I am about to submit the forms to the USCIS using the grandfather rule. I am the parent. It may seem like a silly question, but whose photograph do I need to submit? my photo or the grandchild’s?
Also I am applying for my two children. Do I send the application together? do I need to send two copies of all MY documents and the grandfather?
Thanks
98.
lisa | December 31, 2009 at 10:52 am
i am about to start the process for my 1 year old.
to all of you who have already been through this process:
how do i send the $460? where do i send it to? what form of payment?
do i need to send it in with the forms?
if i send it through a wire transfer do i need to send proof of transfer along with the documents?
99.
adam | January 3, 2010 at 9:41 pm
i have 2 questions if anyone can please answer it would be much appriciated
first of all are we talking about a living grandparent or one whom has passedaway is alligeble ?
secondly if a dead grandparent is not alligeble how about a great great grandparent?
100.
isranglo | January 3, 2010 at 9:56 pm
I’d listen to Avi above regarding the child refund issue as I do in fact use his company to prepare my tax forms for this
101.
isranglo | January 3, 2010 at 10:00 pm
Jonathan
you send the CHILD’S photo as he is the one being applied for. Regarding applying for 2 togethr the answer is yes and yes. You DO have to apply for each child separately and include copies of all the relevant documentation in each child’s package BUT what I did was to
1) prepare the packages separately each in their own envelope
2) place the 2 envelopes into an even larger envelope along with a check covering both kids and a letter asking that for convenience sake the 2 files be assigned to the same case officer and be invited for their interview on the same day even if it delays the interview date as a result. – I had no problem whatsoever and the kids both became citizens together.
102.
isranglo | January 3, 2010 at 10:05 pm
Lisa
you send the money in with the forms . as far as I know your 2 options are money order or check. I personally have never had a problem finding someone in the local American community where I am who could and was willing to write me a check on their American bank account as long as I was paying them the money up front (if it’s a friend they might even just say you can pay them when the money comes out of their US bank account). You send it to the field office to which you submit your N600 and documentation as part of the sae package
103.
isranglo | January 3, 2010 at 10:08 pm
Adam
the issue of whether the grandparent has to be alive at the time is a gray area and over time the instructions on this have seemingly changed. Best to look at the most recent instructions on the N600k that comes with the forms when you download them.
as for your further back ancestor you can’t stretch beyond a grandparent to my knowledge. However if you have a great great grandparent still alive I wish them long life and health!
104.
Yaniv Kaplan | January 3, 2010 at 10:33 pm
Adam,
I am doing the process myself these days with the help of an immigration lawyer (case is a bit complex)
We discussed this exact point and the lawyer claims it is not needed that the grandparent is alive for the application – he/she needs only to have been a US citizen at the time the grandchild was born and need to have died a US citizen.
Hope this helps,
Yaniv
105.
adam | January 4, 2010 at 6:47 am
yaniv thanks for your comment – im just starting the process and would be thankfull if you could tell me if you succeded by the way his grandmother died in israel not in the states but i understand that dosent matter have a nice day
106.
Yaniv Kaplan | January 4, 2010 at 7:54 am
Adam – I do not think it makes any difference if the grandmother dies in Israel or in the US. My case is different (I just said we discussed such a case) but I am sure those are the things I was told by my lawyer.
good luck
107.
adam | January 5, 2010 at 6:47 am
what do parents whom are not married do – understand that it becomes much more complicated that way -and i would need to appear infront of judge in the us ? does anyone know anything about this ?
108.
isranglo | January 6, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Adam
an excellent question to which I do not know the answer. PLEASE let us know if you find out as my brother’s in just that situation and I’d love to be able to help him out. Also if you’re finding out find out if there are different rules for whether the US citizen parent is the one who has custody of the child. I assume there are at least different procedures but the question is whether it can be done at all if the citizen parent doesn’t have legal custody. If it can I suppose there must be some kind of document needed from the parent who does have custody granting their approval but I don’t know exactly what would be needed. If you check into the issue and could report back any of this information it would be a great help to myself and I’m sure to many others out there.
109.
adam | January 7, 2010 at 6:19 am
isranglo
im not shure about this but would belieive that they would want to see some kind of an agrriment from a lawer (translated of course}
mabey even nutariezd (hescem mamon) about the question of custdy i think you would have to show them a court house rouling
in order to astablishe the fact that the two parents are truly the parents and are or were in a realationship together
110.
isranglo | January 7, 2010 at 11:04 am
Adam
thank you. I’d venture to guess that something would be required but to be honest I’m not really looking for educated guesses – I could do that myself. I’m looking for hard info should anyone know it. Proving that they’re the parents is no trouble as they’re both on the birth certificate and national identity card. Can’t get too much more official about a parent child relationship from Israe than those 2 documents. The question is whether that’s enough and if not specifically what’s needed. Thanks anyhow
111.
isranglo | January 7, 2010 at 12:19 pm
I’m writing in response to a letter I just got which, with all due respect I’m not going to post. It was from a lawyer offering their services in the area of immigration. I assume the person also has some background in the N600k though it wasn’t mentioned specifically.
The fact is that MOST of the cases I’ve run acros don’t require a lawyer and just need common sense and the willingness to follow the directions on the USCIS website and get tips from people here. I’ve put 4 kids through the process with no legal training and without a hitch at 2 different field offices. I’ve had many others both on and off this site report to me that with my help their kids got citizenship. And unlike the lawyers that do this I’m not making any money on it. This site doesn’t even have any ads on it for the few pennies that might make me.
The point of this page is to enable those who can to save on lawyers fees. Obviously those with unusual cases will need to talk to an immigration lawyer and should then go to one recommended to them – not one who comes here to let us know they offer the services. I’m not making any money here and I’m certainly not running an ad service for anyone who wants to charge for this.
I’m not claiming to be a lawyer or an expert on immigration in general. But I do know that in most cases the N600K doesn’t require a lawyer based on personal experience. Should you read this blog and the USCIS instructions and feel you need a lawyer go ahead and find one but at least I hope you’ll do so from a better informed point than you would have had you not read this page.
Of course should any lawyer, offer to do what I’m doing – that is to give people all the advice they want pro bono – more power to them. But the moment a phone number, website or email is posted to try and drum up business I’m trashing it. You want to answer questions people ask feel free to do it here on the blog.
112.
Michele Wolgel | January 7, 2010 at 2:31 pm
In response to post 104 about a case in which the parents are not married
the answer to this depends on whether or not the U.S Parent is the mother or not
If the Citizen parent is the mother it should not matter, if it is the father it is more problematic as the child would have to be “legitimatized”
Michele
113.
isranglo | January 7, 2010 at 9:01 pm
Michele
thanks for your answer – that was my assumption as well. The real question though would be what the legitimization would be. I, for example, have a similar case I’m looking at where the parents are unmarried but the child appears on the parents national identity card (teudat zehut) and the father appears as the father on the child’s birth certificate. The question is whether that would be enough and if not what documents could possibly be more for connecting parent and child.
I should also note that I have sent this question off to the USCIS service center who received it (I requested a delivery receipt) but have yet to reply.
114.
isranglo | January 7, 2010 at 9:10 pm
incidentally all, as a followup to my earlier post (108) I’d like to point out that I have nothing personal against lawyers who deal with these issues. The point of this blog is that most cases can be done without going to them but there will always be
1) special cases with unuorthodox circumstances and
2) those who even after reading this blog still feel out of their depth
to those people I would certainly recommend asking around and finding a good professional.
That said, THIS blog is aimed at those interested in first ascertaining whether they can do the process on their own before they pay for a professional service. As this is a self help blog as it were, I prefer not to publish details of any one lawyer or another as I don’t want to turn this into an advertising forum which is in danger of happening should I let anyone advertise nor do I want to deal with the responsibility of saying lawyer x can put their details here and lawyer y cannot.
while I realize that said info may be useful to some that visit here it’s not something I want to get into and as I’m doing this for free myself don’t feel a responsibility to provide. Hopefully people will get something out of what’s been written here. If I’ve failed to help anyone reading this then my apologies and I sincerely hope you find a topnotch professional to do the job – but I don’t intend to provide a listing.
Thank you to any and all lawyers, however, who take the time to answer any questions posted by people here. I’m sure those helped by it appreciate your taking the time to answer.
115.
lisa | January 18, 2010 at 11:09 am
hi,
i have a couple of questions:
it says in the form that the citizen parent should fill out all the times he/she has visited the US – do i really need to fill that out? don’t i just need to fill out the dates that my mother (the grandparent) has lived there?
Regarding marriage certificate and proof that i have custody of the child – are those documents relevant when the citizen parent is in fact the mother of the child?
Last question: Do i need to go to a notary in order to translate hebrew documents?
thanks,
Lisa
116.
isranglo | January 19, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Lisa
1) good question. I really can’t recall which I filled out. hopefully someone here will remember though.
2) The marriage certificate seems to be required in any case but the proof of custody doesn’t seem to be an issue in any event (unless your divorced) even for the father. I went fanatic about it the first time and they never asked and by the 3rd time didn’t even bother and wasn’t asked for it. I’d say provide a copy of the marriage certificate if you can and don’t bother with the custody thing unless divorced and in your cover letter give them an email to contact you at in case there’s any more proof they’d like you to provide. If they need you they’ll get in touch and if they invite you to the interview without it they most likely don’t care.
3) unless they’ve changed the rules you don’t even need a certified translator. All you need is for whoever does the translation to sign a statement at the top/bottom of the document attesting that they know both languages and affirm the attached document to be an accurate translation of the original. That’s what I was told, what I did, and what they accepted at 2 service centers.
117.
sara | January 26, 2010 at 11:31 pm
Hi,
I have been searching the Internet for months to find any helpful information about form N-600k. I am so glad I found this blog…
What I want to ask is: Do old passports for the grandfather provide enough proof of physical presence in the US? and do i have to provide proof of my presence in the US? I only lived there for 12 years (from birth up to my 12th birthday) and I can’t seem to find my school records…
Thanks
118.
isranglo | January 27, 2010 at 12:13 am
sara
.
well I’ve had this piece up for about 2 years but in any case I’m glad you found it
In answer to your question, passports are definitely legal documentation but could be hard to prove a residency from. You might make a case if it’s a multi-year passport and you can show that the only stamps of leaving the country are 5 years apart but ven so it might not be enough. You’re better off taking your father’s social security or school (transcripts though – not diplomas) or work records if you can obtain them.
Your presence in the US isn’t an issue as long as you have citizenship. I’m quite familiar with your situation as I also left the US just before my 12th birthday. You’re applying on the basis of your father’s presence there not yours. All you need to provide regarding your own stay there is your birth certificate.
119.
Shira | February 3, 2010 at 11:18 am
I’m also in the process of registering my 6 month old baby to be an American citizen, and I sent all the required documentation to Boston, MA with my own personal check (I have a bank account in California), and just wanted to let you all know that within a week they sent it all back, stating that they do not accept personal checks anymore, but only money order or a certified bank check. So I went to the bank here in Israel and they issued me a certified bank check in dollars (I had to pay only a small fee for that since I don’t have a dollars account here), and I resent everything, and now waiting to hear from them again. Hope all goes well!!
120.
Ezra | January 27, 2010 at 11:56 pm
About deceased grandparents:
http://www.mnllp.com/USCISgparentnov03.pdf
121.
Michal tugov | February 1, 2010 at 8:55 pm
hi
WOW – thanks for all the information. It’s amazing.
We have one question. We are filing for our three kids. We plan to travel to the New England area on August.
Which field offices are recommended? Since we are traveling, we are not constrained to any particular city.
Also, when to apply – now (six months prior) or later?
any ideas?
thanks
122.
Jonathan | February 7, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Hi,
I sent my application to Hartford CT two weeks ago and within a week got an E-mail that they received my application. they accepted my personal check,
They sent me a whole list of things that everybody needs to submit in order to get approved. if you like i can post it here.
It seems that they are getting tougher and tougher. I sent them 4 diplomas for my Dad (the grandparent). And tt now turns out that not only does each diploma acount for only 1 years but, also that each diploma must be accompanied by a certified transcript for it to count at all! does anybody know what that means?
They also said that the best is to send Social Security quarterly statements as proof. Has anyone done that? How do you get them? I sent them an annual statement but I don’t know if that is good enough.
They said it will take them 15 months to complete the process. seems quite long for a small office in Hartford CT.
Can anyone provide any usefull info ?
Thanks.
123.
Michele Wolgel | February 7, 2010 at 1:53 pm
All of the offices are in fact getting stricter, however, Hartford asks for Certified Transcripts while most other offices use Student copies. Also while it might say that it take 15 months, in my recent experience it does not take that long there. Lastly, while they do not do so all offices are in fact supposed to accept personal checks as per the instructions.
Diplomas however are only good for one year each in any office.
124.
Michele Wolgel | February 7, 2010 at 1:55 pm
One more addtion regarding the previous quetion about a Social Security statement
If you sent an annual that means that it was a benefit statement they want an earnings statement which you can order on line or through the mail.
125.
Jonathan | February 7, 2010 at 2:44 pm
I sent them a social security statement that looks like this:
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/mystatement/sample1.htm
including the earnings record on page 3. which shows my dad had income for several years back in the 1950-1960.
Is this the form you had in mind?
Will this satisfy the USCIS?
If not, what is the form I need?
Thanks!
126.
Michele Wolgel | February 7, 2010 at 3:12 pm
That in fact should be good for them it is the correct form
127.
isranglo | February 8, 2010 at 5:27 pm
thanks for fielding the questions Michele – you’re more on the ball than I am
I’d just like to note that when I did my 4th child (I applied a little over a year ago and took him this past summer) they’d already changed the diploma rule. That said, I sent the diplomas in and wasn’t asked to provide transcripts unless I wanted to get credit for more than one year (ironically I actually HAVE transcripts as my dad’s a packrat and no doubt if I looked hard enough I could have provided them with a kindergarden transcript for him as well complete with marks for sandbox and milk & cookies) and they had no problem with that. So my question would be as to whether this has changed again to the extent that they’re only crediting one year even with the transcripts (seems kind of silly since the point isn’t to prove your education but to prove you were located on US soil) or if there’s simply a difference among field offices on what they demand?
I, at any rate, had no problem with this in the Portland (Oregon) field office.
I should also note vis-a-vis the Conneticuit office that I recently sent them a question and they used every type of doubletalk they could to avoid giving me a straight answer. I don’t know if this reflects their attitude as a whole but it leads me to believe that the various field offices DO have some degree of latitude in what they’re able to (and choose to) require and so it may be worth looking into this before deciding to which office to apply.
128.
Michele Wolgel | February 8, 2010 at 6:01 pm
The offices have plenty of latitude, while Hartford used to be a very good office they have become more difficult. Be that as it may I have a client who just filled for an infant there and already has an appointment for his other children and they said that while they don’t do cases out of order they received they process quickly enough for him to file and have all of the children interviewed together in April. I have yet to see if if works as we haven’t even gotten the receipt yet. As per the transcript/ diploma I always send both if I have and there is one office where I did in fact send 5 diplomas from High School thourgh PHD and a Report of Birth Abroad where only the mother was a USC and to my great surprise they asked for transcripts.
129.
George S | March 20, 2010 at 4:03 am
Question about “legitimation”.
I am the grandparent.
My daughter and her partner (unmarried) have 2 children under the age of 3 years old.
Daughter received her US citizenship 6 months ago after she and I completed a number of forms, presented a lot of documents, including a DNA test, and went to a US Consulate to be interviewed.
I live in the USA, they are all born outside of USA and have never been here.
I qualify under 322 to sponsor the grandchildren.
What constitutes proof of “legitimation”? Is this some affidavit that attests to the fact that they are domiciled at the same address and are, in fact, a family?
Father’s name appears on the birth certificates.
Cheers,
130.
isranglo | March 21, 2010 at 11:34 am
George
!
.
ah the $64k question…as it so happens i’ve been dealing with this exact question recently with the BCIS office. First of all let me note that if the mother is the US citizen then it’s not at all clear that the parent has to prove a marriage at all since the requirement is showing that the child is that of a US citizen parent. In the case of a father proof is certainly needed but by the mother maybe not.
In any case though if you’ve asked and they told you you DO need legitimation than you’re no better off than I am with the case I’m dealing with. The immigration offices explained to me that “legitimation is whatever is deemed by the country in which the child was born to constitute legitimation” (now is that sentence worthy of a doctoral thesis in bureaucratic doublespeak or what). Basically the point was “it’s your headache, you figure out some creative way to prove it and if it happens to seem logical to us we’ll let it through.” When absolutely pressed to the wall (and after numerous exchanges of letters) the person was willing (in careful non-committal speech) to acknowledge that were the parents to get married and produce a marriage certificate that that would “most likely” be considered sufficient prrof of legitimation. So unless you have some really creative ideas in mind and they still want to get the kid that citizenship…mazal tov – you’ve got a wedding to plan
As for your affadavit plan – good idea and I thought of it too as well as producing official documentation from the ministry ofthe interior showing we all reside at the same address but the person said that all that shows is that they reside in the same place but doesn’t confer legal legitimacy (unless it’s deemed to constitute legitimacy (a term which they were unable or unwilling to even define in english let alone what the parallel may be in another country) by the country the child was born in. Father’s name on the birth certificate (in my case he’s got that plus his children are listed as his in his national ID card issued by the ministry of the interior) is also deemed insufficient. Kind of makes one think twice the next time one rails about the buraucracy in the countries where we live.
ah well…weddings are fun and the children will make adorable bridesmaids/groomsmen I’m sure
131.
Michele Wolgel | March 21, 2010 at 11:51 am
I have filed many cases where the mother was the Citizen and have not had legitmization problems, whether or not the father was on the birth certificate. Examples are same sex couples and single mother’s, whether through sperm donation or not. The only thing the USCIS offices wanted to insure was thet the father was not a USC.
Michele
132.
George S | March 21, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Dear Michele and isranglo..
Thanks for you input.
This started when I stopped at a USCIS office and asked an officer what we need to provide to fulfill the “legitimation” question on N-600K since there was no marriage. After I explained the circumstances the agent said if they are (were) “domiciled” together that would suffice.
The officer went to the computer and mined some data on the subject. He printed out text from a file he found on this subject. I forgot about this printed sheet as it was co-mingled with other documents.
Presented below is that text:
——————————————————————————————
Born Out of Wedlock: For immigration purposes, the term “born out of wedlock” means a child’s natural parents were not legally married at the time the child was born.
If the child was born out of wedlock and he / she was not legitimated before his / her 18th birthday the child may still qualify for the benefit sought as a “child born out of wedlock”. To qualify, it must be shown that a bona fide father-child relationship was established while the child was unmarried and under the age of twenty-one years age. Such a relationship will be deemed to have existed where the father demonstrates or has demonstrated an active concern for the child’s support, instruction, and general welfare.
Evidence relevant to establishing a bona fide father-child relationship is varied and widespread in nature and may include, but not limited to the following:
Photographs: Old family group photographs covering an extended period of time taken with person(s) for whom you need to establish the relationship. Each photo must be identified with the time, date and place the photo was taken.
Military Records: Records that name members of the family you are claiming, such as military pay allotments, Selective Service registration forms.
Insurance Policies: These documents should indicate beneficiary(ies) named, and the relationship to the policy holder.
Miscellaneous: Government identification papers, passports, deeds, medical records, school records, business records, income tax returns, social security records, census reports, family bible entries, records of family events, money order receipts or cancelled checks showing the farther’s financial support for the child.
Documentary evidence for establishing a bona fide father-child relationship must originate from the period of time when the child was unmarried and under twenty-one years of age. The most persuasive evidence for establishing father-child relationship will be documentary evidence that originated from the period of time when the beneficiary was an infant and young child.
* Important: If the father and child have ever resided in the same house, it must be indicated when (the specific month/years) and where.
————————————————————————————-
Now that I digest this, and the comments from this Blog, for my application I think we can easily provide proof as indicated above.
Again, it seems to mean marriage is one way to “legitimate”, the other is to have established a demonstrable family unit, i.e. domiciled and living as a family.
As Michele said, same-sex couples, single parent households, sperm donation, etc have certainly thrown obscure legal terms from 150 years ago into a tailspin.
I called my daughter and asked her to plan a wedding around my next scheduled visit. In the meantime I’ll start collecting the relevant documentation. ;-(
So, one more question:
Does the N-600K need to filed in the city where I live, or can we file in a city more accessible to those who have to travel to the USA for the interview? I forgot to ask that question when I was at USCIS. From this Blog, it would seem some offices are more busy than others, and that might be a deciding factor.
Can we file in New York City and the interview be performed in San Francisco?
I am neither an attorney or a PhD in gov’t doublespeak, but for the past 10 months I’ve met a lot nice people who are willing to help with these obscure processes.
Thanks for all the advice…….
133.
Yoni | March 23, 2010 at 10:15 am
I am also interested in starting the process and I would apreciate input.
My situation is such that my wife’s parents are US citizens, living in the US (through naturalization) for the past 15+ years. My wife and me do not have a US citizenship.
Are our children eligiable for citizenship through her grandparents? is it the same process?
Thanks
134.
Yaniv Kaplan | March 25, 2010 at 8:25 pm
After a long process of struggling to get the required documents (due to the complexity of our case) with the amazing help of Michele Wolgel (Go Michele!), we just got our interviews scheduled!!!!
In less than a week from sending the documents out!!!
Thanks to:
Israngelo – for posting the amazing and helpful blog – without you this would never happen (I am registered for more than 2.5 years – see comment 5 up there)
Michele – for being there at hard times believing this will end up well and leading us towards this day (and for charging such a reasonable fee for doing that
)
I will update on the interview once we are after it….
Yaniv
135.
Blip | March 26, 2010 at 10:42 pm
some people here were asking how to pay for the procedure.
We found out at our local bank (Otsar Hachayal) that we can get, not for free of course, a certified check in $. Since two bank employees had done it, it was quite easy. It took three days since it wasn’t done at the local branch and it cost us 21$+exchange comission.
good luck to every one.
136.
Blip | March 26, 2010 at 10:49 pm
oh – Iforgot to ask –
From all your experience how long does it take for the Vermont office to process the applications and set an interview date from the day they recieve the papers?
We send our papers to te Vermont office. We got an answer that our papers are bein processed and that it takes between 3-6 monthees before an interview could be schedualed.
since we were planning on mid august we are kind of worried we win;t be able to make it happen.
we can’t buy plane tickets for August only a few weeks ahead, and we don’t want just to buy te tickets and than change at a high cost.
tnaks
137.
isranglo | March 29, 2010 at 10:34 am
George
thanks for the very informative sheet you provided us with and Michelle thanks for your input on the subject. Note that my answer was less about what the official rules are then about what I was told by an official at one of the immigration offices. Unlike Michelle, I am not a lawyer and the purpose of my blog is to try and make it as simple as possible for people with fairly straightforward cases to get through the process without the need to pay a lawyer (apologies Michelle) thus freeing Michelle’s and her colleagues time up for the cases that really need a lawyer’s help. This doesn’t mean that i don’t welcome tips on the more complex cases – it just means that I’m more cautionary as to dispensing information in more complicated areas. My rule of thumb is “if you don’t know – don’t pretend to.”
So yes it’s possible that old family photos showing the family together etc. may suffice – but then again it may not. This is one of those areas where its up to the discretion of the case officer whether to accept it or not and it may be one will let that through and another will need Michelle to lean on them in court. Just something to consider is all I’m saying.
As for your other question Gorge you have to file where you want the interview – otherwise everyone would file in alaska or some other place in the boondocks and then interview in New York. In any case consider that the sped at which your case will be decided based on 1) the speed the filing office deals with your application and 2) the speed at which the interviewing ofice has a place for you in their schedule. Even if alaska zipped it right through why would you suppose New York would shove an Alaskan interview high on the list when they have tons of applications to their own offices. If you’re going to New York file in another office drivable from there like Rhode island Hartford or Philly where the wait is shorter and make the drive. It’s a bit of an inconvenience but still better than waiting to push it through in New York.
138.
isranglo | March 29, 2010 at 10:38 am
Yoni
Sorry but the grandparent law is there to enable the children of US citizens who themselves have citizenship but not all of the requirements to pass it on automatically to their children to apply for citizenship using their parents qualifications. If the parents themselves have no citizenship the kids don’t qualify.
You MIGHT have an advantage going through regular immigration channels if the grandparent is willing to sponsor the kids but that still would necessitate the kids going through the regular citizenship process.
139.
isranglo | March 29, 2010 at 10:45 am
blip
thanks for the tip on paying. It’ll be useful for those who for whatever reason can’t find anyone willing to write them a check from an American bank account (I myself have never found a lack of people willing to do that favor but apparently some do).
regarding your August plans, there’s really no way of knowing about any given office though as you can guess applications pick up towards summer since lots of people want to do what you’re doing. I’ve always found that it’s best to send WAY in advance safely within a reasonable time frame (say 9-10 months in advance) and tell them in an attached letter that you’re planning to be there at a particular time and to please see if they can fit you in then even if it means putting other people ahead of you. It’s much easier for them to move you back to august if they’ve processed your application and intend to give you a June date then to move you up if they’ve given you an October one. If you’re counting on a particular time without a safe buffed to allow them to process the application under the worst case scenario then you’re taking chances. Good luck though if you’ve already sent and i hope it works out.
140.
Michele Wolgel | March 29, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Yoni there is a way to do the Citizenship proess for your children although not through the grandparent clause. Through the Grandparent clause the Citizen parent is the applicant, thus not a Citizen not an Applicant.
This is one of those cases where a lawyer can help as isranglo points out sometimes things are not so straight forward.
Michele
141.
George S | March 29, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Dear isranglo,
Don’t sell yourself short. Even the most savvy case officer must follow the processes, rules and procedures which are written in their operations manual. In that these words are a cut and paste directly from the manual, it would be difficult for the officer to discount them.
“Photographs: Old family group photographs covering an extended period of time taken with person(s) for whom you need to establish the relationship. Each photo must be identified with the time, date and place the photo was taken.”
It was interesting that when the officer printed this out for me he said there is more but it’s not available for the public to see. I’m sure that an attorney could lean on them to release the entire text if one were interested.
I will tick through the list and provide at least one, or two, of each item listed. I did this when applying for my daughter’s citizenship last year and it went very smoothly.
The consulate officials commented on the accuracy and completeness of my submission and the accompanying documentation. Our case was very complex because of the number of years that passed from birth to obtaining citizenship, over 40 years.
As complex as it was, the process to get her citizenship went very quickly and the consulate staff was extremely helpful in walking me through the process. Possibly because they had never seen our situation before and were themselves interested in helping us to work it out.
Thanks also for the info on where to submit. I think we’ll use an office on the east coast as it will be easier for them to get there than vs. the west coast where I live.
Thanks again, great blog….
142.
adam | April 24, 2010 at 7:27 am
i have a question about the documents that are in hebrew or any other foriegn languauge do they have to be translated by a lawer or a noteriun or by just any bylingule speaker – what do they mean by a person that is competent to translate?
143.
jon | April 25, 2010 at 9:47 am
I had it translated by a friend who knows English well. he also happened to be a canadian notary, but that is not neccesary.
Just find someone who knows english well and isn’t a family member.
I also wanted to update that after 3 months from handing in the documents to hartford CT office, we recieved an invitation for an interview. I hope all goes well in the interview and there are no surprises.
This guide and everybody in the comments helped me very much.
Thank you.
144.
Arinak | April 29, 2010 at 1:40 pm
You mean the translation of the Tamtist from Misrad Hapnim can just be translated by an English Speaker and sent without a notary’s stamp? That is amazing! We thought we had to have every page stamped and that would have cost us over 1000 NIS
Great news!
145.
Orly | April 29, 2010 at 3:36 pm
We received an interview confirmation from the Hartford office and although it is stated that the dates can’t be changed we asked them to reschedule the interview. They refused.
Is there a way to make them change their mind?
146.
Michele Wolgel | May 4, 2010 at 3:49 pm
It is very difficult to do, you need a very serious reason
I have some cases that I have managed to change and some that they refused
It is a good reason not to file in that office
147.
arinak | May 2, 2010 at 4:08 pm
I seem to recall that we needed to attach passport pictures of the children ( applicants) to the application forms . But I can’t see any reference to it anywhere.
If I do, how many pictures 1 or 2
Many thanks
Karina
148.
Carlos Alvarez Jarvis | May 4, 2010 at 3:48 am
What if I am over 18 years old and my grandparents are dead? Can I use the Grandparent option for
obtaining USA citizenship?
149.
Michele Wolgel | May 4, 2010 at 3:47 pm
The bottom line answer is no. Under the grandfather clause you must obtain Citizenship before your 18th Birthday
Additionally, your parents (father or mother) would have had to have been a USC in order to apply for you
150.
Moira | May 4, 2010 at 9:01 am
We have just had our invite to go get my son’s certificate. We proved his dead grandfather’s residence qualification by getting:
1.
151.
Moira | May 4, 2010 at 9:11 am
We have just received the invite for my son to get his citizenship certificate. It has been an exercise in ingenuity and the use of ancestry.com, seeing as my father was born in 1926 and died in 1971 having lived 16 years in the UK. The documents that have been accepted to prove his residence are:
His original passport application
His Social security records
Both were obtained from the US, for a fee of course. Couldn’t have done it without the help of this blog.
152.
isranglo | May 4, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Moira
glad of any help we could provide – congrats to your son
153.
isranglo | May 4, 2010 at 4:11 pm
carlos
as far as I know once you’re past 18 you can’t apply via the grandparent law anymore. sorry.
154.
adam | May 4, 2010 at 6:51 pm
i have collected all the documents nedded the only thing is me and my spouse are not married we have an egreement between us authurized by a judge here in israel how can find out whether this is enough for “them” before i file the application should i write and ask do they hand out information like that?
{i dont want to send in the application without knowing and get a refusule }
155.
Shira | May 11, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Yaaaaay!! So I just got an email from the Boston office saying they would like to schedule an interview for my son! My question is-what kind of documents do I need to bring with me for the interview?
I’m so excited, and am hoping all goes well:-)
156.
isranglo | May 11, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Shira
Bring the originals of all the documents you sent copies of in your original application package. Not the INS forms of course but any documents you sent them copies of for “proof” they have the right to ask for the originals. In addition, once you get to the states make a photocopy of the page in your son’s passport where they stamp that he arrived in the US and also bring them the white card (I forget what it’s called) that you have to fill out for him on the plane when he enters the country. I seem to remember that they take part of it at passport control and part stays with you or something like that. Bring those 2 things in addition to the original documentation. Good luck!
the answer’s very simple
157.
jon | May 11, 2010 at 12:58 pm
I have an appointment for my kids for an interview at Hartford CT in the summer.
Does anyone know what kind of VISA I need for my kids? I filled out form DS-160 , but didn’t know what kind of VISA to ask for.
Thanks again isranglo and everybody for your help.
158.
Michele Wolgel | May 11, 2010 at 2:16 pm
The little white slip is called an I 94
It is the bottom half of what you fill out on the plane
Michele
159.
isranglo | May 11, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Jon
glad i could help. personally I don’t even remember what kind of visa my kids got and it didn’t matter because I never asked for it by name. Each time I simply applied for a visa with the invitation letter from the INS attached and a letter explaining i needed a visa that would let them come for the interview and the passport came back from the embassy with the proper visa inside.
160.
Emil | May 17, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Hello, Just like everybody else here I was born in the US and I have american citizenship but unfortunately I haven’t lived in the US long enough to pass citizenship to my son and daughter.
Ok here is my question. I suppose it’s not important because nobody here has mentioned it but I notice is that on the N600k form it says “Expires 09/30/09″. I even downloaded a new version from the USCIS website and it says the same thing.
Any ideas on exactly what it is that expires?
Thanks to isranglo and everybody for your invaluable help.
161.
Emil | May 21, 2010 at 11:24 am
Another question.
In your original post you mention that although the grandparent won’t have to appear at the child’s interview I will have to show
“his/her own birth certificate and proof of his/her US citizenship”
I hate to be anal about this but isn’t a birth certificate already proof of citizenship? If not, what would be proof of citizenship a valid passport?
Thanks
162.
isranglo | May 26, 2010 at 6:12 pm
Emil
regarding your first question it presumably means that that version of the form has expired. Generally this isn’t a big problem especially if no new version has been posted but they put that on so someone running across 2 versions of the form won’t wonder what the heck is going on and whether they’re supposed to fill out one or the other. I’d suggest either calling the USCIS call center listed on the site and asking them or including a letter when you mail in your application in which you note that you’re including the expired form because as of the time you filled in the form a newer version wasn’t available. The forms are usually almost totally similar so at the worst they’ll ask you to refill out the forms and most likely won’t bother though they might ask you to clarify any info the new form requires that they can’t find listed on the old one.
As to your second question anality is fine but if you were REALLY so you’d have read the sentence more carefully
If you had you’d realized that it says “birth certificate” not “US birth certificate.” So if the grandparent has a birth certificate from Sierra Leone that doesn’t prove they’re US citizens and Sierra Leone citizenship gives no claim on passing on US citizenship! But the naturalization certificate you provide would prove that they acquired it. Obviously a US birth certificate WOULD prove it. But those are what you have to show (birth and US citizenship) and for some people it can be done with one document while others require more.
163.
Shira | June 2, 2010 at 9:24 am
Hi,
just one quick question-what kind/type of visa do I need to get my child onto for flying out for the interview?
Thanks,
Shira
164.
Avi | July 1, 2010 at 4:20 pm
A tourist VISA (you can state that this is the reason of your trip)
165.
Chaya | June 3, 2010 at 9:57 pm
Hi
If I’m US because my parents are US however i’ve lived in Canada all my life. Now i’m living in the states – but had my baby in Canada -do i have to do the same thing?
Thank you,
Chaya
166.
Heartbroken | June 12, 2010 at 10:42 pm
Hi! Great blog! Born American, but left when I was 13, I was misinformed at the Consulate about the right procedure to pass on citizenship to my teenagers. My whole family lives in the US., and my mother could have easily passed it on no problem. They started an immigration procedure instead, and I was put through the Adam Walsh scan(lost 6 mos. there). Sadly my eldest is now 19, and the youngest to turn 18 in 1 month. They are looking into it at the consulate, but I have learned to be well informed myself, mistakes are always possible.Time is not on my side,Please please, what should I be doing????
167.
Michele Wolgel | July 1, 2010 at 8:20 pm
If you have all of the documents it is not too late for your younger child
You will not get help from the Counsel
I can prepare the case for you and get you the appointment if you can get a visa on time
See Yaniv’s Kaplan;s post above
it would be a shame for both of your children to miss out
Michele
168.
Khally | June 15, 2010 at 6:19 pm
I just submitted the N600k to Hartfort, CT. They emailed me the receipt and it indicates the procesing time it between 12 to 15 month. is this correct? I thought it would be faster. They also send me a checklist of documents to send, if I hadn’t already done so.
169.
Claudio Russo | June 23, 2010 at 12:42 am
This blog is fantastic and a real service to the community.
I’m just getting my original submission together but now wonder whether I’m supposed to include certified birth certificates and marriage certificates or just Xeroxes of those. Obviously I would bring the certified copies with me to the interview.
Thanks,
Claudio
170.
Claudio Russo | June 23, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Thank you for this wonderful blog.
I have a simple question. Is one supposed to include original certified copies of the birth certificates and citizen parents marriage certifcate or is it sufficient to include Xeroxes of both and present the originals at the interview?
Thanks for you help!
Claudio
171.
isranglo | July 1, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Claudio
you should include only copies in what you send and keep your originals to yourself and have them ready to present at the interview should they ask.
Glad you like
172.
isranglo | July 1, 2010 at 5:27 pm
khally
interesting question. Let me put it this way. Generally hartford according to all I’ve heard always went much faster – there’s a good chance they gave you that length of time as a safety net so if it does take that long you won’t complain and if it’s faster then you’ll be happy. That said, the fact that Hartford has traditionally been known as a fast place to go may have attracted more applicants over time anxious for a quick process at a place close to New York so that nowthe waiut may have in fact become longer.
173.
Jonathan | July 1, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Regarding Hartford: I sent in my kids forms in December and in April was invited for an interview. so it took around 4 months. I think originaly they said 6 months.
I doubt it will take a year. they are probably just playing safe.
Good luck!
174.
Dodo | July 22, 2010 at 12:48 am
Hi, Thanks for the useful blog
We just received an email to schedule an appointment, Just wanted to know if we have to apply for the visa for our child at
the American citizen department at the embassy or the non citizens section as it will take long time to schedule an appointment in out country’s embassy, please advise
175.
isranglo | July 23, 2010 at 12:19 am
Dodo
probably best to call your embassy, explain the situation and ask. In Israel there’s an automatic service you can do via telephone where they come and pick up the kid’s passport and forms and bring it to the embassy and return it with a visa within 2 weeks butI don’t know who they take it to or what the procedure is in your country or if they have something similar.
176.
Dodo | July 27, 2010 at 1:01 pm
Thanks for your reply , one more question , please correct me if I am wrong, we sent them now for a date selection for the appointment , then we will wait for their reply , after that they will send me a paper which I will take to our embassy to apply for a visa for the child ? then we will travel for the interview which is a routine to give the baby the passport there. ???
177.
Jonathan | July 27, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Hi dodo,
The embassy will give your kids a visa for one year so that they can go to the interview and get their US citizenship. if you do it via mail (which you can for ages below 14) then there is no problem. if you don’t do it via mail -if you do go there, you will need to schedule an appoitment and then wait on line like all Israeli’s do.
We just did this process and are going to the interview in two weeks.
good luck.
178.
Dodo | July 29, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Thanks Jo for the information, I just received the letter by mail from the USCIS office, I will contact the embassy to get a visa for my son , do you know any case who did the interview and failed to issue the passport for the child ??
179.
George | August 2, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Question to the experts.
Once you receive the invitation to come in for an interview, is there a window of time that the interview must occur..
For example, if we get the invite on Oct 1st can we schedule the interview for June 1 of the following year?
We have to bring over 2 small children and everyone’s school and work schedules will require a lot of planning.
Thanks you…
180.
Michele Wolgel | August 5, 2010 at 6:59 am
It really depends on the office some are more flexible
181.
Rachel P. Cohen | August 4, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Can the process be started before birth of the grandchild (during the mother’s pregnancy?
Thanks for the info.
182.
isranglo | August 5, 2010 at 12:57 am
George
in the letter they give you the date you have to be there. In some cases they give you an option to change if inconvenient in others they don’t even give you a phone number to call and try and reason with them. This seems to be by case rather than state because I did one of my kids at more or less the same time as another friend did at the same office and I got no contact info and an order for a specific date and she got an email she could use to contact them.
Incidentally, I also have gone with 2 small ones at the same time and the summer is when more or less everyone wants to do it for the reasons stated by you (and remember that the people dealing with this particular issue are ipso facto dealing with kids up to 18 since after 18 they’re no longer eligible – so EVERYONE is a schoolkid needing to come at a convenient time) so for there to be any chance request a date far in the future and hope they give it.
183.
isranglo | August 5, 2010 at 1:01 am
Rachel
what exactly would you submit? There’s no child born to a US citizen parent yet if there’s no birth. And while I think they’d be amused to get an ultrasound photo of the baby in uterus (I won’t even ASK how you’re going to get the baby to position its head in the necessary way required for the passport pictures that must be included with the application) I doubt it would get you anywhere
184.
Rachel P. Cohen | August 17, 2010 at 10:26 am
If there are two older children, can’t the process be started (the forms filled out and an appointment made in the US) and completed when the third one is born?
Thanks,
Rachel
185.
Michele Wolgel | August 17, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Rachel
While I told you that I could do this many offices do not and make you wait as if you had filed all at the later date
Michele
186.
Dodo | August 10, 2010 at 3:06 pm
I received the letter from the USCIS office in philadelphia , but the embassy here is asking about the (General G-56 Call in Letter)
is it the same letter?
187.
Yoni | August 16, 2010 at 10:25 pm
If you successfully receive citizenship thru a grandparent for your first born, must you repeat the process of going to the US for future kids or can they then get citizenship at the US embassy without having to fly to the US? Thanks.
188.
isranglo | August 17, 2010 at 2:56 am
Dodo
I don’t know the form number but all I ever needed was the invitation appointment letter from the USCIS.
189.
isranglo | August 17, 2010 at 2:58 am
Yoni
you need to do the whole thing over each time and make sure to use the most updated forms and keep with whatever the current requirements are at the time you submit them. Hey they’re giving your kids the opportunity for citizenship but they’re not inclined to make it any easier than they need to.
190.
Natalie | August 23, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Do you know if it is possible to claim citizenship through a garndparent if you are over 18?
191.
Tome Shkedi | August 23, 2010 at 5:00 pm
Dear writer!
Thank you so much for your detailed info.
I guess i’m pretty much under the same category you are – a citizen born abroad. lived in the u.s. for 3 & a half yrs. under the age of 4 and than after i was married with 2 kids, i lived there for another 4 and a half yrs.
I didn’t understand through the embassy’s websight weather i have to live a total of 5 yrs. in the u.s. before my children are born in order to pass on the citizenship to them, or do i have to live in the u.s. for 5 years, and 2 of them over the age of 14 (in no relation to when my kids were born.
I have an appmt. in the next 2 days, so I’d appriciate a quick responce if possible please.
Thank you sooo much! Tome
192.
Michele Wolgel | August 30, 2010 at 1:27 pm
The answer it 5 years total
2 after age 14
All before the birth of your children
Michele
193.
isranglo | August 24, 2010 at 12:03 am
Natalie
Sorry – the grandparent law is just till age 18. After that you apply as an adult with the same forms as any foreigner though it might improve your case if you have US residing relatives willing to sponsor your application. But your advantage of being a grandchild ends at 18.
194.
Rob | August 26, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Hi,
I just want to know if you think it’s worth it to still apply under the Grandparent law with me being over the age of 18? Are there ever exemptions in RARE circumstances or is the rule set in stone?
Also would I have any advantages in applying for a green card since I have both a Grandparent and Parent who are U.S. Citizens? My Grandparent lived in the U.S. but my Parent did not.
Thanks!
195.
isranglo | August 29, 2010 at 10:49 pm
Rob
keeping in mind that I’m not a lawyer but also bearing in mind that I’ve had years of experience of dealing with this and (through my blog) interacting with people who deal with it my answer would be absolute waste of time and (if you hire a lawyer) money. So far as I know it’s set in stone and I do know of people who have been rejected because of age even though they missed it by mere weeks. As far as they’re concerned at the USCIS the N600k is a special case to begin with as it’s a backdoor way of allowing certain people to get citizenship IF the rules apply to them. They’re not looking to try and enable people to slip in through it – they’re willing to allow those who qualify to apply for consideration.
You MAY have an advantage applying for a green card but as I’ve only ever dealt with the grandparent clause I don’t actually know. I’d guess if your parents only got their citizenship by virtue of their parents you likely have no advantage one over 18 but you might as well mention it when applying for a gren card if you’re applying anyhow.
196.
Michele Wolgel | August 30, 2010 at 1:25 pm
Rob the answer is correct it is set in stone and I am a lawyer
18 and 1 day and you CANNOT do it
There might be a way to file for a green card if your American parent wants to file for you.
this can only be done in Israel until you are 21 then it has to be filed in U.S.
Michele
197.
Michele Wolgel | August 30, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Rob the answer is correct it is black and white and I am a lawyer
18 and 1 day and you CANNOT do it
There might be a way to file for a green card if your American parent wants to file for you.
this can only be done in Israel until you are 21 then it has to be filed in U.S.
Michele
198.
isranglo | August 29, 2010 at 10:55 pm
Tome
That’s a good question and one I’m not sure of though I guess by now you know so it would be helpful if you could pass on the information to all here. That said your question is only relevant to this site if you need to have it all before the kids are born for it to count. If you can do it even after the kids were born then you’d just pass along the citizenship yourself and have no need of the grandparents. On the flip side if you need to have that time before the kids are born for it to count then living there for 4 years or 1 day is meaningless as your presence no longer matters then but just your parents presence.
199.
Arinak | August 29, 2010 at 11:02 pm
We FINALLY sent our applications ( 3 children ) in May. We received a letter asking us to re send large size Canadian birth certificates which show that we are the parents. We sent it right away, both by mail and scanned copy to the e-mail address we were contacted from.
Still haven’t heard anything back. We’re getting worried as our eldest is turning 18 in November.
We thought Buffalo would be quick.
Has anyone applied to Buffalo recently? Have they become slower ?
Thanks
200.
Bob | September 13, 2010 at 6:42 pm
You are doing important work with this site.
My daughter is filing for US citizenship for her two daughters on the basis of my status as their American grandfather. We have some problems filling out the application.
Part 4(e) My daughter received her US passport two days after my wife was naturalized. Is my daughter’s date of naturalization the same as my wife’s?
Part 4(g) and Part 5(g) It is impossible for me to list all of my visits to the US over 37 years (at least once each year), nor can we know exact dates of my daughter’s visits. Should we list only periods of residence?
Our case is further complicated by the fact that my daughter was adopted by me and she lives with but is not married to the father of her daughters. Do you think that, given these complications, we need the assistance of an attorney? Would you be able to recommend someone?
Do you happen to have an up-to-date estimate for the length of the process in Newark, NJ?
Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give us.
201.
isranglo | September 15, 2010 at 1:11 pm
thanks Bob – glad if the site’s helping
ok so let’s take the questions one by one 4e) I’d assume that they’re the same but let’s start with something important which is that the passport and naturalization dates are unconnected. A person can go years without getting a passport if they choose. Your daughter’s naturalization date is whatever it says on your DAUGHTER’S naturalization certificate. Presumably it will be the same as her mother’s but if your daughter isn’t US born then she must have been naturalized and must therefore have a certificate. It’s possible that due to some bureaucratic snafu it wasn’t given or mailed to you but it should have been and it exists (or at least a naturalization number exists)
4G and 5G – don’t sweat it – give as many of the more noticeable ones (i.e. 2-3 months or more rather than the weekend) as you can recall and then note in an accompanying letter that you’re a frequent visitor and are unable to recall every single time. They never even asked me about it. They just want to get a general picture of your relationship to the US – hardly a game changer. Do your best and don’t fret about what you can’t remember.
The fact that she was adopted by you probably shouldn’t be a problem but not being a lawyer I can’t say for sure. Your real problem could be the last point – about her not being married to her kids father. If it were your son I’d say pretty much forget it based on my experience, however a daughter may be ok since a woman doesn’t have to prove as heavily that she’s the children’s mother (there are witnesses to the birth) as opposed to a father for whom it’s just the mom’s say-so and since the citizenship’s coming through her it may be ok.
If you take it to a lawyer the only one I know of offhand (though I’m sure there are thousands) is Michelle who often visits this blog and graciously offers her advice on matters I don’t have the answer to. I myself never needed a lawyer with my kids but my experience of Michelle on the blog has been that she knows her stuff.
New Jersey? Don’t know and wouldn’t advise it. One of my top tips on this process has been that if you want to get things moving along do it at a center that isn’t located in an area with a large immigrant population (NY, NJ, FL, CA) as everyone doing the process from abroad wants to go to those places so they can save on hotels and get a visit in etc. by staying with relatives. This ultimately means that places with such populations have long waiting lists while places like kansas and alabama won’t (let’s be honest – how many mexicans/pakistanis/french etc. are popping by for a visit for relatives in those places? some maybe but not masses).
202.
Yaniv Kaplan | September 15, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Hi Bob,
Continuing isranglo’s reply to you – I have used Michele’s help with great success. Our case was complicated and she managed it very professionally and not less important – at a VERY reasonable rate. She is also well connected to a law firm in NY that handles immigration issues.
I think NJ processing would be extremely long (months or even years) however she got us an interview scheduled in less than a week from filing the papers.
Anyway – best thing (and harmless) is to give her a call – 02-5903444 (from your post it is not clear if you are from Israel. If not you need to dial +947-2-5903444)
Good luck,
Yaniv
203.
Bob | September 15, 2010 at 9:46 pm
Thank you both for your help. There is information about processing times at the various centers in Citizenship and Immigration Ombudsman Annual Report, 2009.
204.
Dodo | September 16, 2010 at 7:19 am
Thanks guys for the support,
I just finished the interview and had the certificate of citizenship,
one last q.
how to apply for a passport and is there any special steps
205.
arinak | September 20, 2010 at 12:55 am
We are on our way to Buffalo for an appt. Thank you so much Isranglo for all of your help and everyone’s comments .
It took about 6 months, but it must be because we had to send a different copy of our children’s birth certificates ( they wanted to see us as parents on them).
Our children are big ( 17-15-13) They have heard from friends that they will be asked questions? To swear allegiance? Rumors? Can someone please verify?
THanks
206.
S. Gail | September 20, 2010 at 3:22 pm
I recently took my 17-year old to the office in Albany. They asked very few questions and luckily asked me recite the oath instead of him since he is under 18 (google the US naturalization oath to see the text).
207.
Fred | September 27, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Fellows in misery!
Gee, wish I had seen this blog years ago! Great job. I have been living in the US up to the age of 14 when we moved to Germany. So I have to go through this crap as well.
Anyway I figured out this topic by myself by now, but could need further advise on following: I do have interview appointments for my 2 kids coming soon. (What do they want to interview infants in the first place?!? My kids don’t speak English yet anyway – In fact one doesn’t even speak at all!) I have already approved to the appointments, but now I have decided to leave one kid at home and take only the other. My daughter’s health situation (mentally disabl. & epilepsy) makes it nearly impossible for her to do such a long flight. But her situation may change in a couple of years – she’s making quite good progress. So now I would like her interview to be delayed on a long term. Is there any maximum term defined? Does the USCIS officer have a leeway?
Of course, I would rather have the ‘interview’ done here in Germany at the consulte or embassy. Is there absolutely no exception that applicants must visit the interview IN the US?
Fred
208.
Riz | September 28, 2010 at 8:02 am
Hi
I am applying N-600K for my biological child based on my father’s(her grandfather) presence as a citizen in United states for 5 years or more.
I am just what sort of document can be provided as a proof of his presence. He studied at NYU (but he wasn’t a citizen then) He later practiced in Manhattan as a dentist for more than 10 years while he was a citizen.
His tax records good enough evidence?
Regards
209.
isranglo | September 29, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Fred
. I wish it had been up when I was doing it myself but of course until I did it I wouldn’t have known what to write 
Glad it’s helpful – but I haven’t had it up for that many years
The “interview” is just a formality as far as little kids go. They’ll just ask you questions – not them.
I’ve never heard of them conducting an interview anywhere outside the US but maybe in this case if you can show that circumstances are such that the child really can’t travel. On the other hand they don’t really have a reason to be accommodating. It’s not in their interests in any way. I’d be shocked if they agreed to that. The reason for going to the US is that the law states that you have to enter US borders to become a citizen (or something similar)
The delay of the interview though shouldn’t be a problem (except bureaucracy may make it so) and even if they say you have to refile I’m sure it won’t be held against her down the line when refiling that she didn’t follow through this time around.
210.
Fred | October 26, 2010 at 10:36 pm
isranglo
just to give you feedback after having been in Boston Field Office: you were right in all aspects.
The interview for N-600K must take place within the US – no exceptions, no leeways. I explained the officer why I could only bring my son without his sister and finally I was given an additional 2 years time to reschedule for my daughter.
There are times I wish I was a US-mother abroad out of wedlock (like my sister): although also not have residing within the US after the age of 14 she had no problems obtaining US citizenship for her daughter in a consulate here in Germany! Had the child been within wedlock they would have had to file in the US …
However, I had a wonderful trip with my son – now a new US citizen – travelling from NJ to Cape Cod and Boston during indian summer.
211.
isranglo | September 29, 2010 at 3:30 pm
Riz – tax records issued by a US government agency are among the best proofs. Most of us aren’t so conscientious and well ordered as to hold on to them though. If you have 5 years worth of them that’s perfect.
212.
Riz | October 25, 2010 at 10:33 am
isranglo! thanks a bundle for your kind reply. I could not get the tax records but I have the following.
1. Social security statement showing my father’s earning record from 1974 to 1987.
2. His naturalization certificate (1981)
Is there anything else required/needed to show his presence?
Secondly, who should sign Part-7 of N-600K (my child is just 6 months old). and whose pictures are required mine or my child?
Regards
213.
Michele Wolgel | October 25, 2010 at 11:35 am
It sounds like enough proof to me
You ( if you are the Citizen parent) sign the N600K
The pictures are however of your child as they are put on the Certificate of Citizenship
Michele
214.
isranglo | October 25, 2010 at 11:53 am
ok looks like Michelle beat me to it
. The only thing I might add (so as to seem someone useful) is that it’s standard in this process that where a form needs to be signed by the applicant that the parent fills it in for the child. YOU do the interview and when you get the naturalization certificate they’ll ask you to sign on it with a note that you’re signing as the applicants “mother”.
215.
Riz | November 12, 2010 at 11:23 am
isranglo, Micele!
Thanks a bundle again. I am now almost ready to file.
Now just wondering which center to file in. Posting this question in a separate post.
Indebted
Riz
216.
Shira Schreier | October 7, 2010 at 3:19 pm
I tried to do the process myself to register my daughter’s two kids as US citizens. I applied to the W. Hartford office but wasn’t able to get the date I wanted for an interview – they were pretty backed-up. I called Michele Wolgel at the recommendation of a friend and from the first phone call, I felt I was in very professional hands and I was sorry I hadn’t gone to her in the first place. I met with her and she explained that I was missing a very important document (Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the USA – not the smaller green document but the A4 size white paper with the consulate stamp – which proves the lineage with the grandparents and even has the dates when the grandparents lived in the U.S. – very important document for this purpose!! Luckily I found it at home. She also told me that you can get a birth certificate in Hebrew and English from Misrad Ha’Pnim – the Maalei Adumim branch will print it out on the spot!!
But never mind that, most important, she got me the date I wanted within a week by transferring the file to the Vermont office. The most amazing part was that before I had even gotten home from meeting with her, there was already an email waiting for me from the Vermont office saying that, according to my lawyer’s request, they have asked the W. Hartford office to transfer my files to them. I was very impressed with that speedy action – I love email! So I am going to Vermont with my daughter and grandkids next month and I’ll let you know how it goes (the Ben & Jerry’s factory is nearby – that’s the best reason to go there). Michele’s number is 02-5903444. Her email is: lawyer@wolgelaw.co.il. Highly recommended!! Shira
217.
isranglo | October 10, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Shira
). The site is after all based on the principle that most of the time a lawyer is not needed for the naturalization through a grandparent and while somewhat complex can generally be done by the total layman (such as myself).
I’m glad to hear you met with such success. Note that while generally I’m rather careful regarding people making recommendations on here for professional services (after all I don’t even have this site adworded – though I’d be willing if someone could tell me how to do it here without transferring the blog to another site – any advice is welcome
That said, I will not deny that there ARE more complex cases where a lawyer can make a difference and far be it from me to deprive those people of a good lawyer. Michele has for some time now been an active contributor here, giving gratis of her own time to answer people’s questions that I either haven’t seen or can’t answer and so I’m letting this post through. This does not mean I’m going to start allowing postings of every lawyer looking to advertise on here (or their clients). That is fully at my discretion. But Michele’s longtime regular help here combined with such a recommendation from someone whose used her personally makes me happy to send this recommendation on through to the blog.
218.
arinak | October 25, 2010 at 8:07 pm
Hi, sorry it has taken so long to post this.
We finally got an appointment from the Buffalo office ( about 6 months after we submitted all of the paper work- we were missing a birth certificate stating that we were the parents so that probably slowed the process)
The appointment date was sent via e-mail. We were asked to come a month after the e-mail.
We asked for a closer date ( the following week- Sukkot) which was immediately accepted and confirmed by the office.
Give yourself time before the appointment time as we needed to go through security and had to go back to the car to leave water and camera.
Punctually, I was asked to come in, without the children. The judge made me affirm/swear that the information was true. We went over the forms ( hair colour, height, weight). She asked to see the original birth certificates, and my father’s original
tax reports.
She also asked for the passports with entrance date. Thank you so much for the suggestion to have the entrance stamps photocopied as well as the binder organizing all of the paper work.
Two surprises: the children 13,15,17, were asked to read the Oath of Allegiance ( wasn’t expecting it but they provided them with a simplified version) and my son was told that when he turns 18 he will have to register for the Selective Service System ( army lottery) .
Everyone at the office was very pleasant, the whole thing taking about 40mn .
From there, as suggested, we went to the Social Security office to get the children cards.
1- One needs to have a local NYstate address to have the cards sent to. An Israeli address is not acceptable. ( We gave them a Canadian address which they did accept)
2- Children over the age of 12 need to have a personal interview with an agent there. So make sure you tell them you are in the States temporarily. We were only made aware of this when we were back home.
Isranglo, thank you again, for all of the invaluable information that was posted and shared. It took us over two years to get the whole thing organized, but we finally did it!
Good luck and don’t give up.
219.
isranglo | October 27, 2010 at 1:02 am
arinak
so glad I could be of help. Always nice to hear success stories after the fact and hear about people’s experiences in the various centers. It’s good that you stres that they asked to see your original documentation. They never really asked to see mine in eithe center I went to but thepoint is they can and in your case did and so it’s important for people to have everything arranged nice and orderly so that you can produce it if needed.
and the binder to keep everything organized is really very useful. If you’re organized and they see you’re prepared they’re much happier about the whole thing and it makes them naturally more amiable.
220.
Bob | October 31, 2010 at 3:24 pm
A recent post suggested that citizenship could be obtained for a child born out of wedlock without the parent and child having to go to the US for an interview. I am wondering why this is possible and what constitutes being born out of wedlock. Does it include children whose parents are not married but who are both listed as parents on the child’s birth certificate?
221.
Michele Wolgel | October 31, 2010 at 4:55 pm
If the USC parent is listed on the birth and the couple is not married then the Residency in the US requirement is one year continuous residence
This means 365 days consecutively, one day out ruins it.
It also is at any age
Lastly if it is the mother it is very doable but if it is a father they can ask for DNA testing
However, if this is the case then the child can be registered here as a USC and issued a CRBA
Michele
222.
isranglo | October 31, 2010 at 8:55 pm
Michele
as long as we’re on the topic, permit me to ask a followup question. At what point does the couple need to be married in order for the regular process to be available. What I mean is, let’s say a couple had a couple of kids without a marriage certificate but the father was listed on the birth certificate. Then the couple got married and they applied for citizenship for the kid via the N600k. Would the kid be eligible for citizenship if the father was the USC because he’s on the birth certificate and there’s a marriage certificate for the 2 parents or would the kids have to spend the year in the US to be eligible because their births predated the marriage certificate?
223.
Michele Wolgel | October 31, 2010 at 9:37 pm
I’m not sure that I understand the question but I think you’re asking is if they were not married, are married and do not have the 1 year residence
In this case they can file the n600K for all of the children, the out of wedlock is supposed to make the case easier not harder, that being the reason you can simply register here if you have the requisite residency.
If I didn’t understand correctly please ask me again
Michele
224.
isranglo | November 1, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Michelle
I think we’re on the same page here. So basically you’re saying is that even though they weren’t legally married at the time of the births, and as long as the USC dad’s on the birth certificate as the father, if they go ahead and get married legally now they can proceed with the N600k process for the kids and submit the marriage certificate the same as if they’d married before the births without the need for the kids to live abroad. Is this correct? Lol if so it’s time for me to light some fires under someone to get married…:-)
225.
Michele Wolgel | November 1, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Yes I agree with what you wrote
The marriage is sort of a Legitimization, you would just need to make sure to check the correct box that the parents were not married at the time of the child’s birth
226.
Abby | November 2, 2010 at 8:53 pm
Hi,
Thanks for your great website. Very helpful!
I am putting together the N-600K applications for my 2 kids. Based on my mother-in-law being a US citizen and having lived in the US for the min number of years. I live in Toronto, Canada. I kept putting this off, but have recently learned that the filing fees are going up from $460 US to $600 US after Nov 23, 2010. So, needlesss to say, I am rushing to get this done asap. I have a few questions that I hope you can help me with:
1. Which field office do you suggest that I use? Preferable NY and something within reasonable driving distance.
2. What are the processing times?
3. Payment: How can I get a money order drawn on a US bank? Can this be done at a Cndn Bank?
4. Do you reccomend that the grandparent also attend at the apt/interview?
Thanks,
Abby
227.
Danny | November 3, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Hi,
Do I need to notarize my translated documents? Do you know if this is necessary to translate the Hebrew documents by translation company, or can we do it on our own (someone with excellent English)?
Thanks,
Danny
228.
Sarit | November 3, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Hi,
I don’t need to tell you how helpful this is. I believe I have all documentation, but I still have couple of questions..
I’m applying for my 2 daughters. One is 8 yrs old and the other is 1 year old..
my older one is from my first husband (I’m divorced for 5 years now). I do have all paper work to support my divorce.
You have mentioned that proof of custody is needed. I went to the internal ministry office and got a form showing me and my daughters on the same form, but I’m not sure it is the correct form. Is there any other form I can provide? Is a copy of my divorce agreement which shows that my daughter is under my custody will do?
I’m a bit insecure at that part as I’m not sure I have the correct form.
Looking forward to get your reply.
Thanks,
Sarit
229.
isranglo | November 4, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Abby
. Thanks for the tipoff about the filing fee being raised. there’s someone I wanted to light a fire under to get started and maybe this will help 
.
Glad if the blog post was helpful
Now regarding your questions I’m guessing the nearest New York office for you would be Buffalo which traditionally is supposed to have a decently short waiting time but I believe you can find the times on the USCIS site. I wouldn’t get too attached to their numbers though as there’s no way to no absolutely for sure. I ended up getting an appointment a week before my friend – I’d filed a year+ before and she’d filed only 3 months before.
I’ve never used a US money order for this. I always just found me a nice American (always plenty about) willing to write the check on their US account for me to include with my submission and then had them let me know when their check was cashed (they can see on their bank statement usually) at which time I pay them in the local currency (in my case shekels). People have always been more than happy to do it especially when hearing it was for a kid. If the grandparent wants to take a trip for the fun of it, why not?! I imagine the USCIS would be happy to see them. But as far as their NEED to be there it’s unnecessary unless their proof of residency is somehow problematic.
Good luck!
230.
Abby | November 4, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Thanks for your quick response! Just a few more questions:
1. At part 4 (G), it has a space to enter all the times the US citizen parent resided/was physically present in the US. Considering that the application is based on the grandparent as a US citizen and that the parent didn’t spend enough time in the US, do I simply leave this blank? Or write “N/A”? Or do I have to enter in each and every time the parent visited the US even though it obviously is not enough time?
2. At part 4 (H), it asks about the parent’s spouse’s immigration status. I checked off “other.” What to put as the explanation? ie My husband is the US citizen. I am Canadian. We live in Canada. So should I simply write “resides in Canada.”
3. Not sure if you’ll know the answer to this one…. For the parent’s marriage certificate. In Canada, there are 2 kinds. The short form and the long form? Which do I send? (I have the short form at home, but would have to order the long form if it is needed.)
4. The grandparent is currently looking through her papers to ensure that she has enough proof that she resided/was physically present in the US for the min amount of time. I sure hope that she does. She lived there from birth to marriage, when she was in her 20s. She should have transcripts, etc.. But I’m a bit worried if she doesnt have neough paperwork. Not sure who we could ask for an affidavit from that would remember her…. What do you think of an affidavit from her parents, the great grandparents, saying that she’s their child and that she lived in the US all those years?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
231.
isranglo | November 5, 2010 at 4:35 am
Abby
So it wouldn’t make sense for them to put in a question that would have every applicant write not applicable. You need to fill it in with the dates of visits to the best of your ability. Don’t go crazy obsessing about some time you crossed the border for a couple of hours to eat waffles or something like that but do the best you can – especially on longer trips and anything you can’t remember simply say that there were other trips so short you can’t even recall their exact dates. They’re not looking to check the parents alibi for the time of a murder 
just trying to get a general sense of the amount and frequency of time spent in the US.
My pleasure. Now to your questions 1) no parent using this form has enough time in the US to qualify the kid for their citizenship on their own account – that’s the POINT of the form
as for immigration status I always put in something along the lines of “hasn’t applied for immigration and no plans to do so.” I thus make it firmly clear that this isn’t some plot to try and immigrate the foreign spouse via the kid but simply about getting this kid their citizenship.
I don’t know the different typed of marriage form in Canada but long form sounds a lot better. Remember, my philosophy is the more information you can give them on any issue the happier they are and the easier they make your life. If it’s a hassle to obtain then the short form is likely to be enough (or if not they’ll tell you and you’ll get it then). If it’s not a hassle the long form is likely the better one.
If the paperwork isn’t available that’s when it gets tricky but best cross that bridge when you come to it. You say the GGP are alive. They’d probably be amused if you came in with the GGP to vouch for the grandparent and it might work (like that old joke about a place with special benefits for people over 90 with a note from their parents). But it also may be that the GGP would have documents proving THEIR residence in those years which would support the fact that their under 20 child would have been there with them during those years. But in any case why not wait to see whether the documentation is or isn’t available before getting paranoid and panicking
232.
isranglo | November 4, 2010 at 12:14 pm
Danny
no notarization has ever been required of me through 4 kids. And no you don’t need a professional translator though of course they should be a competent one. And don’t translate them yourself (you’re not unbiased so it doesn’t look as good), or if you do then let someone proofread it for you, make changes as necessary and claim it as their final translation. Once you have the translation have the translator certify it. By this I mean have them write/type at the top something like “I so and so do hereby attest that I am fluent in both English and language X and have translated the below document fully and completely” and sign their names and date it.
233.
isranglo | November 4, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Sarit
. My answer to you would be “well, why not?” Is there any reason not to submit both? I’ve found that the INS loves and respects paperwork and preparation. The more solid a case you can build, the more angles you can cover and possible loopholes close the happier they are and the less concerned they are about something being out of place. You’re right. Show your timidity and they’re likely to go hunting to check carefully that you’re not timid because you’re hiding something. Give them a mound of supporting proof to sort through and they’ll just glance through it and say everything seems to be in order. Did I say they love paperwork? what I mean is they love the feeling that YOU’VE already taken care of the paperwork – taht way they don’t feel they have to as much. The divorce paper showing custody should be enough. But if you’ve more paperwork that can in any way support you put that in too. And then show up at the interview with a ring binder like I did with plastic sheets, clearly labeled, each of which has certain documents in them for quick referral. That way when they asked to see a document (there weren’t many) I just muttered “dad’s birth certificate…ok here’s the birth certificates folder” and whipped it out and the guy even noted how organized I clearly was and what a help it was. Submit all the paperwork that can possibly back you up – better to include than exclude.
You don’t need to but I appreciate the compliment anyhow
234.
Michele Wolgel | November 5, 2010 at 7:24 am
All of the responses have been on point just wanted to add that for status of other parent I always check other and write ALIEN, this just about covers everyone
Michele
235.
Abby | November 8, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Thanks for the responses.
I had the photos taken of my kids this weekend. My 3 year old was no problem. But my 18 month old would not stop smiling.
Saw my MIL and she gave me all her documents. I am not sure that it’s enough, but I’ll send it in now anyways. I want to get it in before the fee goes up. Hopefully they will accept the applications and come back to me for any deficiencies/asking for more documents. (In the meantime, I’ll ask my MIL to look in NY, next time she’s there, for more documents, and maybe have her parents, the GGP, sign affidavits.)
I have heard from other Canadians that have gone through this process that they have sent in money orders drawn on Canadian banks (i.e. TD Bank) and have not had any problems.
I will keep you posted.
236.
Abby | November 9, 2010 at 12:24 am
Ok, one more question.
I just noticed that the proof that I have that my husband is a US citizen is a Form FS-545 Certificate of Birth Abroad (green paper). Is this simeply an older version of the FS-240, Consular Report of Birth Abroad? Or is that something that we need to apply for? My MIL tells me that this is all that she got when she registered my husband as a US citizen in 1980.
Thanks.
237.
Michele Wolgel | November 9, 2010 at 6:04 pm
The Green Birth Certificate was a placebo and they did not give it without the Report of Birth Abroad which is the American Birth Certificate
Be that as it may you do not need to replace it just use the Green plus a bilingual Birth Certificate from Misrad Hapanim
Even if you replaced it it would be the new form which adds no into that is not on the Israeli Birth Certificate
Michele
238.
Abby | November 9, 2010 at 6:11 pm
Michele,
Just to clarify:
We live in Canada, not Israel. My husband, the US citizen parent, is Canadian born.
My MIL told me that the Form FS-545 Certificate of Birth Abroad (green paper) is all that she got when she registered my husband has a US citizen and no other papers. I am going to send it in and hope there are no probs.
Thanks.
Abby
239.
Abby | November 29, 2010 at 5:22 pm
FYI – I sent the papers in by courier so that they arrived before Nov 23, 2010 (when the fees went up from $460 to $600 US per kid). I will keep you posted on what/when I hear from the Buffalo feild office.
Thanks everyone for all your help!
240.
Abby | December 1, 2010 at 5:59 pm
I received a letter from the USCIS field office in Buffalo confirming receipt of payment. Now are waiting for an interview letter…
241.
Michele Wolgel | November 9, 2010 at 6:24 pm
It was NOT the only paper she might not remember and might have lost it but they always gave both until they changed the form to a combined one in 1990
Use the Canadian one which has parents names the green one does not and thus there is no basis for the case based on it
Michele
242.
Riz | November 12, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Hey my nice helpers.
Thanks a lot for guiding me on my earlier queries. Now hopefully one last question.
I am now almost ready to file and wondering which USCIS field office ‘close and quickest’ to Jersey City should I choose to file? I wouldn’t mind traveling up to 2-3 hour.
I am looking at
• Newark, NJ:
• Garden City, NY
• Mount Laurel, NJ
• Albany, NY:
• Hartford, CT:
• Philadelphia, PA
Which one would you think would be the quickest if I apply in 2 weeks time?
Regards
Riz
243.
Miriam | November 13, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Hi, thank you so much for providing us so selflessly with this extremelly useful service!
I am a US citizen through my parents, since they had me in Brazil. They went back but I stayed and am now married to a Brazillian, we have a 2 year old. We were informed by our Consulate here that all we needed to do was show up at a USCIS center with her grandparents, and within 30 days all would be settled! Ha!
Anyway, silly as it may be, I’m already stumped with section 2 of the N-600k… As we are trying for citizenship through Grandparents, has the Form changed in the past 3 years (beginning of this blog), or do we check letter A (parent applying for citizenship on behalf of child)?
The Grandparent option (C) seems to require that I be deceased…
Thanks again!
244.
isranglo | November 14, 2010 at 1:09 am
My pleasure with whatever help I can provide. Obviously your consulate hasn’t a clue – I find the embassies and consulates generally haven’t and it’s rare to even have someone who knows that the grandparent method exists let alone how to go about it. I had to muddle through it myself which is why I then wrote up this posting so others could have it easier.
) but I went to check the latest version to refresh my memory before answering your question. So yes, of course as you’re not dead (or this is too spooky for me 
) then unless your child is adopted you should be checking A. YOU’RE applying for the child’s citizenship for them. You’re just using your parents credentials for the residence issue but you’re the one applying on the grounds of being the child’s parent and a US citizen.
Of course the first thing they got wrong is the grandparents issue – there’s no reason her grandparents have to show up at all and neither does your spouse. My parents and wife didn’t and I’ve done this 3 times for 4 kids in 2 offices on either side of the US – never a problem!
While I don’t have any kids needing naturalization at the moment I have used different versions of the form over the years. There hasn’t been any drastic changes since the beginning of this blog (except maybe the filing fee which I hear is about to b raised yet again
245.
Miriam | November 16, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Thanks again, over and over!
246.
isranglo | November 27, 2010 at 11:25 pm
my pleasure
. Just today someone told me about some roundabout way she had to take to get her kids citizenship because the embassy where she was gave her completely wrong information on this issue. The embassies are useful in many ways but when it comes to the grandparent clause, I’ve found they generally haven’t a clue.
247.
Ari | November 25, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Thank you for all of your posts and helpful insight!
We reside in Canada and we applied for US citizenship for my kids through my father (I am US citizen with no US residency).
We had trouble compiling evidencing my father’s years there, but we did the best we could. We sent everything in around mid-October. Just this week we received a letter from the Buffalo field office with a January appointment date with the 3 kids. Does that mean that they are more or less satisfied with the evidence we submitted? Is there a chance that we’re schlepping the whole family across the border for no reason?
As well, my report of birth abroad lists my father’s 11 years of residency in the US (four of which are after the age of 14). How much weight would they give that form?
Thanks!
248.
isranglo | November 27, 2010 at 11:33 pm
Canada’s no biggie – most people here are going from much farther away
. Still, whether it’s an 11 hour plane ride or a trip in the car you’re right it’s no fun getting there to find out there’s a problem. I personally have never had trouble and have found that once they invite you it’s basically (assuming you haven’t forged any of the documents you sent them 
) a rubber stamping process. The law says that you can’t become a US citizen this way without having been in US territory (not including embasies/consulates) which means you have to bring the kid to the US anyhow in order for them to be eligible. So they do the ‘interview’ bit for a formality. The ONLY case I’ve heard of where there were problems when they got there was a case in which the grandparent had clearly been their for years (50+ actually) but the official records were in such a state of disarray by him he was having trouble proving it technically. But even in that case it got sorted out.
But putting the above aside, I’d have said even before you got the appointment that the chances are that if your US government issued report of birth abroad lists those years for him living in the US it’s a VERY good proof.
249.
Riz | November 26, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Hi folks
I’ve been looking into USCIS field office processing times on their website https://egov.uscis.gov/cris/processTimesDisplayInit.do . It appears they are mostly working on time. I am beginning to wonder how accurate are these timings? any comments..
250.
Ari | December 1, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Thanks, Isranglo.
Through my read here and other websites, people seem to refer to some form of preliminary approval by letter and then an appointment. I only received a letter of appointment to appear with my children with the “reason for appointment” listed as “application for of citizenship for A, B and C. D (me) must attend interview with A, B and C” (with A, B and C being my children’s names). A specific date and time for the interview is listed in the letter. I am instructed to bring that letter with me along with all original documents submitted, passports, etc.
There is no language within the letter with respect to any conditional or preliminary approval. Is this consistent with your experience?
Thanks again,
Ari
251.
isranglo | December 2, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Ari
. If you got the letter then you obviously submitted your documentation to them already as requested by the N600k. As you’ve also noticed they didn’t just send you an appointment date a week after you submitted said documentation. That’s because they needed to do a preliminary run through of your documentation (what you’re referring to as the preliminary check) to see that all seems to be in order. Once they’ve reached the conclusion that (assuming you have original documents and they aren’t forgeries) your documentation is sufficient to entitle the kids to citizenship they send you the appointment to come in so they can ask you a few questions as a final checkup on what they’ve already seen in the copies you sent them and barring any major issues they give you the kids naturalization certificates within an hour or so of the interview. The appointment letter basically means “approved unless you’ve been messing with us and sending forged documents.” They know people come for this from abroad so they don’t bring you until they’ve essentially approved you already. As long as the kids don’t come in wearing kefiyes and ski masks and shouting ‘death to the imperialist satan” you shouldn’t run into any trouble at this point. 
Do remember to comb through past posts in this blog though about things to remember to bring to the interview (like the photocopy of their passport page which has their entry stamp into the US on it).
if you got the letter that IS your preliminary approval
252.
Ari | December 6, 2010 at 11:32 pm
I wonder if Canadians need to have their passport stamped (as we don’t always even use passports to cross the border – we can use nexus cards, etc.). We typically don’t need a visa to cross. I will look into it and advise. Thanks for the heads up!
253.
Abby | December 21, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Ari – For the interview, did you need a visa/stamp in your passports as proof of entry into the US? We are in the same situation — We are Cndn and will be traveling to the US soon for our interview, by car, Toronto to Buffalo. Thanks.
254.
Michele Wolgel | December 22, 2010 at 8:16 am
Not every country needs a Visa in order to enter the U.S.
For example there are 22 countries in Europe that also Waive in, they enter under the ESTA program and do not get Physical Visas
What is required for the N600K interview is a lawful entry not a Visa. This lawful entry is an I94 and is especially important for a Canadian to ask for as they do not even need this to enter. I actually had one Israeli client who was born in Canada and while the rest of her family entered on their Israeli Passports with Visas and got I94s she did not even get an I94 and they almost made her go back to the border to get one. They convinced them that she was a small child and the other Visas should prove when they entered but a Canadian should certainly be sure to have proof of lawful entry as opposed to lawful permission to enter (this is what a Visa is)
Michele
255.
isranglo | December 2, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Riz
I think most are pretty much on time but keep in mind that any individual case can go awry. I once had one get lost somewhere in the shuffle at the Philly office and it took well over a year to process while another time at the same office it took about 8 months. There is an element of chance involved but on the whole things seem to run smoothly.
256.
arinak | December 3, 2010 at 7:21 am
We just got the letter by e-mail giving us a date and time for the appt. ( the original letter arrived later). We e-mailed back with a request for a more convinient time. The clerk in the Buffalo office was wonderful and very accommodating. She gave us the date we wanted.
Good luck!
257.
Silvia | December 10, 2010 at 2:00 pm
I am filing as a grandparent. Do I need to go or only my son and grandchildren? I could only go in July since I work. Which offices are most flexible in terms of giving the appointments?
Is there a compilation of the offices which are more accomodating?
Thank you
258.
carol | December 20, 2010 at 11:07 pm
I have been following this link for the past few months and Isranglo, I have to commend you and all your contributors for the wealth of information here. I am almost ready to submit applications for my 4 young children and like most of you, want to make sure we get a date during the summer holidays as we are travelling from europe. Reading the posts to date, Hartford CT office doesn’t seem to be very accommodating. For that reason, I am now looking at filing in Vermont. I wonder if anyone has recent experiences of getting a date they requested in either Hartford or Vermont? I am looking at filing in early Jan and requesting a date in early July which is within the 5 month quoted processing timelines for both offices. Thank you for your help.
259.
Abby | December 21, 2010 at 11:12 pm
We just received an interview letter in the mail (did not get anything by email). Yay! Have a date in early February.
Although website says processing time for Buffalo is 5 months, it will only have been 2.5 months from time application received in Buffalo to date of interview.
Also, note that they accepted a US Money Order from a Canadian Bank (BNS).
One more question:
Ltr says that we need to bring originals of all documents submitted.
Do we need to bring the original US passport and birth certificate of the US grandparent?
My MIL will let me take her original transcript, year book, etc…, but highly doubt that she will let me take her original birth certificate and passport. What if she needs to travel on an emergency while I have them?!
260.
Maureen Murnane | December 29, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Hi, just came across your site now and have found all the comments to be really insightful. I am a US citizen living abroad who left the US at age 11. I intend to apply for US citzenship for my three children through my parents, one of which is a US citizen by birth and the other who is naturalised. I downloaded a copy of the N600 form and have begun to complete it but have a few questions. I had a previous form in 2007 which had a section (Part 5) applicable to grandparents. However, the new form in Part 4/55 has a seciton information about your US citizen father/mother which I presume is the grandmother option but I’m not sure. My children are 13, 10 and 7. Do I fill up Parts 1-3 relevant to the children, Parts 4 and 5 relevant to the grandparent and sign the form on behalf of the children myself. I find the form to be really confusing. Please advise.
Thanks and regards
Maureen
261.
Willow | December 30, 2010 at 10:16 am
I just wanted to say THANK YOU for all the information I’ve found here over the years.. I’ve been on this journey for amost 4 years, having difficulty obtaining birth certificates, getting a US cashiers check, etc. etc.
And then their email got lost… in the mail (maybe SPAM?) and instead of receiving the invitation last April I will now be going this April (after investigation on my part as to what happened to my application throught consulates and the embassy).
It turns out they sent me an email just 5 weeks after they received my application!!!! For those interested, it’s at the RI Providence field office.
Willow
Florence, Italy
262.
isranglo | December 31, 2010 at 3:09 am
Willow
glad for any help I could give. Sorry for that messup that cost you so much time – I sympathize but these things happen. I had a similar screwup at the Philadelphia ofice one time that I did it and a different time they were perfectly fine and have had friends who had good experiences with them. It’s a bummer when you’re the one that falls between the cracks but that doesn’t necessarily mean everyone will.
In any case I’m glad you’re finally getting to go and that I could be of some use in helping with the process.
263.
isranglo | December 31, 2010 at 3:35 am
Maureen
. The forms do change from time to time and can be confusing but they can be filled out by a layperson like us. First of all I see on the uscis site that it says previous versions of the form are acceptable so you could use the 2007 forms if you liked presumably.
ok take a breath and relax
as far as I can see parts 1-3 o the present form are about the child. part 4 is about you the citizen parent who can’t pass on the citizenship yourself and part 5 is about the citizen grandparent. Then you skip 6 sign part 7 and leave the rest blank.
264.
Maureen Murnane | January 3, 2011 at 10:53 am
Isranglo
Thanks for the reply. I’m going to go with the 2007 form as its easier to complete. Just another question: I’m not sure where to file; Newark (because this is the airport I’d be coming into) or Albany or Buffalo. I also see that you have to give an address when in the States, I would have relations in both New Jersey and Yonkers NY. Does the address you give have to be in the area the field office covers, ie can you give a Yonkers address if you file in NJ. Please advise. Also, does anyone have any comments on any of the three field offices I may be applying to? Thanks for your assistance to date.
265.
S. Gail | January 10, 2011 at 10:54 am
Maureen — I took my son to the Albany office last August. Everyone there was very nice. We arrived early and they didn’t make us wait. The process took less than an hour. There is a free parking lot right outside the office. I definitely recommend this office.
266.
isranglo | January 3, 2011 at 2:02 pm
since you’re coming from outside the country you can file anywhere in the US you wish and you will then go have the interview at that field office. The address you give in the US does not seem to matter – all they want is to know where to reach you if they need to – they have no worries that wherever you are you’ll show up on the day and at the time of the interview. I had a friend who came and stayed in Brooklyn New York and did the interview in Philadelphia and other friens (usually New Yorkers who make their base in New York and) do the interview in Rhode island or Vermont or New Haven.
I’d advise against registering in Jersey as Jersey’s a big immigrant State. Lots of people plan to do the interview and stay with their relatives and therefore states with large immigrant populations are very busy and take longer. Places like New York New Jersey Florida and California are going to be filled with applicants. On the other hand who goes to Nebraska or thereabouts. Of course you likely don’ want to do nebraska because you DO want to say with relatives. But at least pick a close non-immigrant area (such as upstate New York) rather than Jersey or Manhattan where it can drag on forever.
Glad to help
267.
Stella | January 6, 2011 at 10:28 pm
Hi ! I am 29 years old a us citizen born in us but left when i was 3 . My parents are us citizens thru naturalization. Can my 3 year old son can get citizenship by N600k or any other way . My dad become citizen 1975 and my mom 1980. Thanks ! Hope you will help me !
268.
isranglo | January 7, 2011 at 12:57 am
Stella
As long as one of your parents lived in the US for at least 5 years, 2 of which took place after the age of 14, and has documentation to support that claim then you should certainly be able to get your son citizenship through the N600k. Make sure they have supporting documentation (social security records, school records, rental contracts or similar) and then doanload the N600k and fill it out.
269.
Ari | January 7, 2011 at 4:19 pm
Firstly, thank you everyone for your assistance. My children had their interview in Buffalo this week and everything went smoothly. We left with ceritificates of citizenship and then applied for social security.
Pretty quick process overall – sent application package to Buffalo mid-October and interview was first week of January!
One clarification re post 254 above – Canadians do not need an I94 or anything else when crossing the border. We ended up using our Nexus cards to cross and all the interviewing agent in the Buffalo Field Office wanted to see was the children’s passports. She said as Canadians entering with a Canadian passport, that was that was necessary to establish proof of lawful entry (no stamp, form, approval or anything else necessary). She (the interviewing agent) entered “B-2″ in the box on the application as proof of lawful entry (notwithstanding that there was no “B-2″ visa stamped in any passport). As stated above, we didn’t even use our passports at the border! Just our Nexus cards.
For those of you not from Canada or the US, a “Nexus” card is a special card that allows US and Canadian citizens to have expedited crossing at the Canadian/US border – separate dedicated Nexus lanes, no lines, very few questions asked at the border, if any at all.
270.
Ari | January 7, 2011 at 6:22 pm
One follow up question – now that we have “Certifcates of Citizenship” for the children, are they considered American from birth or only from the date the certificate was issued?
I’m asking because the certificates are issued in 2011. When filing my US tax return for 2010, do I list my newly US children and their social security numbers? Am I entitled to the tax credit for 2010 even though they were not American in 2010?
Thanks again.
271.
Stella | January 8, 2011 at 1:04 am
Thanks for your help. Also I would like to now if i can send my mom or dad with my son to the Field Office to take care everything ? because they travel to the US almost every year .
272.
Silvia | January 8, 2011 at 6:46 pm
Has anyone filed in Baltimore?
273.
Sarit | January 16, 2011 at 10:50 am
Hi,
We are applying for both of my daughters, using the “Grandmother option” using form N-600K
One daughter is 8 years old, and I’m divorced from her father for few years now.
My second daughter is 18 months old and I live with her father, but we are not married.
My questions are:
1. Do I submit both applications for both of my daughters together? Do I just put both applications in one envelope? How to separate it? I would like to get the interview for both at the same time..
2. Maybe a stupid one.. but in the instruction page it sais ” 2 pictures of yourself” – I guess it’s pictures of my daughters, right?
3. In part 4 of form N-600K section H, I need to provide information about my current spouse.
We are not married, but I live with my spouse.
As I mentioned above, he’s also the father of my youngest daughter.
Do I need to provide his information in this section even if we are not married? It is not clear from the instructions if necessary to provide spouse information only if now married.
Thank you so much,
Sarit
274.
isranglo | January 16, 2011 at 3:19 pm
Sarit
. So first of all with your older daughter there shouldn’t be a problem providing that you have sole custody, that your ex doesn’t object to the citizenship and that the citizenship is coming through your mom and not his.
well, noone can claim you’ve got a boring situation there
Your younger daughter’s a different story. Generally speaking they demand a marriage certificate but they may be lenient assuming the citizenship is coming through you, the mother as opposed to through your partner.
I would suggest that you leave that section blank and include a letter in which you explain the situation and give all his necessary details so that they can fill it in if they want the info but it will be left blank (and won’t be construed as trying to pull a fast one on them) should they not want that info there. Provide all the paperwork necessary for a situation where they want the father’s info but don’t fill in the info as though you’re married. Also leave a phone number and email in the letter and offer that they call you with anything that needs clarification.
And I’d do what I advise in the case of any 2 kids even in straightforward cases (since I assume you want to bring them in one trip and not 2) which is to create 2 separate packages each with copies of all pertinent documentation and then at the end of it all place both packages into a larger envelope together with a letter asking that they be reviewed by the same case officer and called together even if that necessitates a longer waiting time (you can also put a single check for the entire fee for both girls into the outer envelope (simpler for you anyhow) thus making it less of a bureaucratic headache for them to assign them together to the same officer rather than having to deal with the bureaucracy of having to register the same check in 2 different places.
Of course if Michelle speaks up differently on here then go by her as there may be info I, as an amateur am unaware of that she as a lawyer would have.
275.
Sarit | January 16, 2011 at 3:37 pm
Thank you for your prompt reply.
As it looks complicated, I think that I will be okay..
And yes, I’m the American citizen and the applications for both of my daughters is being submitted through my citizenship and not their fathers..
My ex has no objections and he’s very cooperative in this issue.
I will leave it blank as you suggested, and will attach a letter explaining where we stand..
BTW, we live in Israel. Do you know where can I issue a money order to pay the application fees? Is any Israel bank will be able to do so?
The pictures they ask in the application.. It should be of each child, right?
Thank you again..
Sarit
276.
Sarit | May 23, 2011 at 11:38 am
Isrango,
I submitted my applications for both my daughters in the beginning of March. It was sent to Hartford, CT office.
As you suggested, I’ve included a letter explaining my “special” situation. I did all by myself and did not use an attorney. I just made it very organized and included all documents.
I also included an email address (that was an excellent tip!!), as couple of weeks after submitting the applications, they have notified me by email with the reception of the applications.
Not only that, but couple of weeks ago, I’ve received an email from the Vermont office. They mentioned my applications were reviewed by them, and now ready for interview scheduling!!
They even asked me if I’d like to be handled in the Vermont office, or prefer that they return the paperwork to Hartford, CT..
As I managed to communicate over the email with this nice lady from Vermont, I kindly asked her to get the interview in Vermont.
She was so nice that I even asked for a specific date in August, and she confirmed it!
The interview invitations were received by email for both my daughters. The entire communication was done ever the email and it was great!!
I hope all will go well, and I will write about my experience when I’ll get back.
Thank you again for your wonderful and helpful blog.
Sarit
277.
Michele Wolgel | January 16, 2011 at 4:23 pm
I have some comments but for sure they can be sent together with one check
While each application will in fact have different documentation and different answers
I would say that this is one case where an attorney would be useful
278.
isranglo | January 16, 2011 at 7:57 pm
I would agree that consulting an attorney could be useful in this case since of 2 of the usual requirements (married parents and parents living with kids) one is absent in each case.
And make sure before taking them taht you carefully read the requirements for the picture (they’re very finicky about minute details like distance of face to edge of picture and jewelry and headcoverings and angle of head etc. so read carefully)
I have no idea where one gets a money order though I assume a bank could do it. I’ve always just found someone i know who keeps an American bank account for business purposes (there are tons of them around. If you don’t know one you probably know someone who knows one) and have them write you a check to the INS in exchange for that amount in NIS which you pay them. Whether you pay them for it up front or whether they agree that you’ll pay them when the check clears in their bank account is already between the 2 of you. Generally though there are plenty of people out there willing to help out. Maybe ask on your local Israeli Anglos city list (there are at least 40 cities that have them including all the major cities) for someone who can help out.
and yes – the pictures are of course of the child
279.
Shira | January 26, 2011 at 11:08 am
Hello,
We have our interview set for the first week of April 2011 in Boston. Assuming I immediately go to the Social Security office to obtain my son’s number (I believe they give you the number on the spot, but the card arrives later in the mail), can I put my son on my 2010 Tax forms in order to receive the child tax credit?
Thanks for your help!
Shira
280.
isranglo | January 26, 2011 at 12:12 pm
Shira
I’m not a tax expert and I don’t recall what the exact issues are but I recall that my accountant explained why it was a problem to claim the tax credit for a child who got their citizenship during that tax year. I recall it specifically because in the past I’ve been able to claim backwards for several years and there was no problem but apparently the laws have been revised in the last few years so that he advised against claiming for it – but best to check with your tax person – and then if you’d be so kind as to let the rest of us on the board know what your answer is since I’m sure many here would be interested in a detailed explanation.
What I can point out is that your assumption on the social security seems slightly flawed. Even if you go right away the number will take you at least a week to get AND you have to request WHEN APPLYING that you want to receive the number ahead of the card (the card takes about 2-3 weeks from application).
Also take this piece of nonsense into account…When applying for social security they require 2 pieces of the kid’s identification. Easy, right? WRONG! Because the 3 most obvious pieces of identification (the child’s naturalization certificate, foreign passport (that they entered the country on and the US visa are all useless to you immediately after the interview. The naturalization they may or may not accept that day but the fact is it can take a few days until it registers on their computers. As for the passport they won’t recognize that at all because by using the naturalization to apply it means they no longer recognize the validity of any other citizenship (the US looks the other way on dual citizenship but technically they don’t recognize it as existing so the computer won’t accept it) and of course the visa becomes void the moment they become a US citizen and therefore they won’t accept it though clearly if it was invalid you wouldn’t have been able to get the naturalization. Don’t you just love bureaucracy?! In the end what they did accept was a letter from my minister (or in my case Rabbi) stating that I’m a “member of the tribe” as it were. Ah, but not your local Rabbi wherever you’re from who actually knows you – no, that would make too much sense. This one has to be by a minister who leads a congregation in the US. So basically an Israeli passport and birth certificate and a US government issued visa are all unacceptable as identification at social security. But a letter from a Rabbi who’s met you once on official synagogue stationary – that works. Maybe they’ve made things more efficient since 2009 but hey…let’s not hold our breaths!
281.
S. Gail | February 1, 2011 at 10:20 am
When I took my son to the Social Security office in Troy, NY directly after naturalizing him in Albany in August 2010, we showed the clerk the new naturalization certificate and his Israeli passport as ID.
282.
Willow | March 11, 2011 at 11:10 pm
This is great news as I was trying to figure out what to use as proof of identity etc. for the social security number.
I presume you just have to show them and they don’t need to take them because they talk about original documents — even mailing them, but I can’t imagine giving anyone the original documents (like a passport or naturalization certificate!)
Will definitely come back here after my visit to tell those interested if in Providence they accept an Italian passport as id!
283.
Sarit | February 24, 2011 at 12:24 pm
Hi again,
Reminder.. I’m filling up the application for my daughter. I’m a US citizen and my mother is too.
In part 4, section G of the application, where I put the information about myself, I need to provide a list of dates of residence, and/or physically presence in the United States.
As I never lived in the US, but visited many times since birth.. most visits were short (up to 2-3 weeks) and I can’t remember all my visits..
What should I write in this section? Should I estimate? I’m talking about 30-40 times I’ve been in the US..
I checked here in the embassy, and they have no records, or a list of entries to the US..
Thanks,
Sarit
284.
Moira | April 10, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Don’t worry about your residence. I left the US when I was 10 months old and I am now 56. What you need to do is prove your Mum’s. I got hold of my Dad’s social decurity records and original passport application. And my Dad died in 1971. It was all happilly accepted by the RI office.
285.
Bridget | March 30, 2011 at 3:53 am
Am looking at trying to get my 16 year old son’s US citizenship. I immigrated to Canada with my parents when I was 15 years old. My parents are also naturalized Canadians residing in Canada, but they have maintained their US citizenship as well, renewing passports, submitting income tax forms, collecting Social Security when they came of age, voting in absentia in US elections, etc.
We will likely apply through the Buffalo office. I ‘ve been right through the blog here, and one thing I’m not clear on from either the blog or the forms themselves is whether the Grandparent also needs to attend the interview or just the child and parent?
286.
isranglo | March 31, 2011 at 11:59 am
Bridget
just the child and parent unless there are extreme circumstances where they might ask for the grandparent if something’s messed up with the records. But then they’ll specifically ask for the grandparent ahead of time. Otherwise just parent and child.
287.
Bridget | March 31, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Thanks!
288.
matthew5,16 | April 6, 2011 at 11:43 am
Hey there,
I read all the official information about this form and all seems clear. One thing they never mention at any official site is the process time.
Can anyone help me who RECENTLY applied for it with this? When you applied and how much you had to wait to get an appointment and when was (or going to be) your appointment.
It would be VERY important for me to know. And a HUGE help of course.
Thank you so much for all your help!
289.
isranglo | April 22, 2011 at 4:04 am
Matthew
actually at one point they posted the estimated process times on the INS site. If they don’t have them anymore that is likely because people became to attached to those times and then got disappointed when they weren’t kept to. Generally the process in most of the quieter offices (i.e. cities without naturally large immigration magnets like New York, California and Florida) is about 6-9 months but that can vary wildly. For example I had a friend who got an appointment for a week after me in Philadelphia on one trip. But I’d applied over 14 months before and she’d applied just 3 months before her date. My case was no more complicated than hers (at other times my same case with the same documentation took far less time to process) it was just a case of falling between the cracks or something – maybe mine was placed on a pile of cases that took longer till they got to them – who knows. The point is while 6-9 months is around the norm they project there’s little point in building expectations on that time frame. Just send as early as possible and don’t haunt your mailbox anxiously – they’ll get to you eventually
290.
Michele Wolgel | April 22, 2011 at 7:32 am
Just wanted to say that I agree with this statement and find that it does happen exactly as stated. I always tell people that the average time is 6 months and the worst 2 offices I’ve had people found in terms of time are New York and Miami.
In these 2 i have had to transfer cases out that had been sitting for a year and in those offices I would say that is the norm.
while again once in a while one case might be faster it would be because it was put on the wrong pile
Michele
291.
Alexander | April 16, 2011 at 12:13 pm
Wow, I love this! My Grandma grewup in the States and appeantly my Aunt is trying to help her get citizen for my Dad and siblings. My Dad figured that they wouldn’t have a problem… and mentioned that I might be able to get it from him. Reading this, obviously makes me realize that its almost impossible for me since Im 20 years old. Kinda sucks, but glad I know now instead of paying out $400 to apply and be denied. Thanks
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292.
isranglo | April 22, 2011 at 3:57 am
Alexander
Sorry you didn’t find my blog on time for this to help you but hopefully you’ll at least be able to pas on the info to othrs you know who it might help.
293.
Garret | April 20, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Hello,
As instructed we provided all the documentation and filled out the N600k and submitted in person with payment but were denied on the grounds that we didn’t have the requisite 5 years as they failed to mention it goes by the law at the time of the child’s birth. My mistake for not being more thorough.
My question is: We do have the 5 years needed from the grandmother and have the proper documentation for that as well, could we update the form already submitted and use the funds already paid or do we need to start all over?
Your help is much appreciated,
Garret
294.
Michele Wolgel | April 22, 2011 at 7:29 am
Garrett it depends on the office and the method of communication
If they corresponded by email try to email them immediately
and ask some offices will do this and some will not.
Michele
295.
isranglo | April 22, 2011 at 3:55 am
Garret
I’m guessing that they’re probably going to make you start over again but I don’t know for sure. My advice would be to try and contact your case officer if you can recall their name and see whether they can do anything for you since they’ve already reviewed the case. If nothing else it might make things go quicker since you’ve essentially gone through the process already and they’ve checked out your material.
296.
Willow | April 22, 2011 at 4:31 am
Just wanted to say thanks again! We picked up the certificates in Providence, RI today. The photocopy of their passports with the entry date was highly appreciated (thanks for that tip!) we were in and out in 30 minutes for two kids.
Only disappointment was getting the SSN which wasn’t possible because they needed to send it to us because we’re leaving in two days, but they can’t send it abroad and wouldn’t send it to a relative here. So we’ll have to do that when we get back to Italy. But the main mission was accomplished: we have 2 new US citizens!!!
297.
matthew5,16 | April 24, 2011 at 8:37 am
Fist of all, congratulations Willow!
Second of all, thank you for your replies. We will send the form as soon as we can.
298.
Avi | May 1, 2011 at 9:26 am
I’ll appreciate help!
My brother (father of two young children) has passed away. He was an American citizen (but without the 5 years physical presence). Our father does have 5 years of physical presence, so we would like to use the N600-K form to apply for citizenship for his children (I’ve done it a few years ago for my older daughter and a few months ago filed for my younger daughter). However, the following issues aren’t clear:
1. Can his wife (not an American citizen) be the legal guardian, or must the legal guardian be an American citizen?
2. In case his father (the childrens grandfather) will file the application, does he also have to go to the interview with the children?
Thanks,
Avi
299.
isranglo | May 1, 2011 at 9:41 pm
Avi that’s an excellent question but beyond my ken. It would seem to me that whoever the guardian is would most likely have to be the one to take the child to the interview but I really don’t know. Possibly our on-topic immigration law expert Michelle has an answer for that one but this clearly isn’t a typical situation.
300.
Michele Wolgel | May 1, 2011 at 9:52 pm
As far as I know the Grandparent can apply if done within 5 years of the death
He does not have to be the legal guardian but does have to go to the interview as he becomes the applicant.
this is the case that I usually tell people you don”t want the grandparent to sign as that would mean the USC parent is not alive
Michele
301.
Dorotheen Strass | May 5, 2011 at 11:33 am
Your website is hopefully an answer to our prayers. My daughter left the US when she was 6 and I left when I was 26 so maybe we have a chance of getting US citizenship for her two daughters. But isn’t there an age limit? Must the children be under the age of 16? One child just turned 14 and the other is 11.
302.
carol | May 9, 2011 at 9:37 pm
Matthew,
If you go to the USCIS site home page, on the left hand side you can scroll down to find National Processing Times & Volumes which will give an actual measure for each site. I found this helpful to find a site that processes a relatively decent number of cases per month and within the 5 month national target timeframe.
I ended up applying for my four children at the Albany site office in Vermont in early February. I received confirmation of receipt by email within days. After 5 weeks I received invitation for interview noting that no further information was required and requesting me to submit 3 dates for our interview…I got the 2nd date I requested in July…(they don’t do interviews on Fridays). All correspondence was by email. Incidentally, my sister submitted an almost identical application for her children 2 weeks after me and got confirmation of her interview invitation after only a couple of days! She got her preferred date in August. It seemed like pot luck as to who opened the packages.
303.
Rachel P. Cohen | May 9, 2011 at 10:03 pm
Don’t you mean St. Albans, VT, and not Albany?
304.
carol | May 10, 2011 at 8:21 pm
Sorry, yes, I mean St Alvans VT….the uscis site office on Gricebrook Rd. Not the national processing center which is also in St Albans.
305.
Mary | May 11, 2011 at 12:33 am
Thanks isranglo for all your information. It was very helpful in preparing my application. It has been submitted and I now have interviews for my 3 children in August. The children are aged 16, 14 and 11. Can anyone give me further information on the interviewprocess? Will the children be questioned on American history? There is a booklet issued by USCIS “Learn About the United States – Quick Civics Lessons for the Naturalization Test”. This lists 100 questions – 10 of which may be asked at a Naturalization Interview. Can anyone advise if it is necessary for the children to study this booklet? Also are the children interviewed individually or jointly with me, the US citizen parent?
306.
arinak | May 11, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Hi Mary,
We had the interview last october. Our chiildren were 17, 15 and 13, They only asked them to read a simplified version of the pledge of allegiance. Nothing more. They first took me in to review all of the paper work and then they called the children in and I was of course there.. Something we weren’t aware of is that boys need to know they may be drafted to the US army by lottery and only in case of war. GOOD LUCK!
307.
isranglo | May 11, 2011 at 7:35 am
Dorotheen
Always nice to be able to answer a prayer
As far as I recall it’s up till age 18. 16 is the age where if a kid’s lived their life in the US till then they’ll become eligible to pass on citizenship themself (5 years living in the US with at least 2 years past the age of 14). But I’d get started on your application right away and preferably at the smaller/more obscure processing centers to avoid a long waiting time just to be on the safe side.
308.
isranglo | May 11, 2011 at 7:39 am
Mary
Good question. Personally I always recommend doing this with the kids as young as possible and then you don’t have to deal with this at all. The oldest of my kids that I took to an interview at any point was 4 and they didn’t ask her her name or age even – all questions were directed at me and they didn’t ask any questions of that sort of me – just about my application.
That said, there are people who for one reason or another discover this option late and so I hope someone answers your question so we have this information for them here
309.
Michele Wolgel | May 11, 2011 at 7:51 am
Not to worry there is no interview like that for Naturalization. While most offices ask nothing they could ask the USC parent questions about the documents. There is no need to have any knowledge of American History or Government or language as with Naturalization, here it is simply a matter of law, if the child comes within the qualification of Section 322 INA (N600K) then they are entitled to Citizenship if the application is filed and the Citizenship received before their 18th Birthday.
Michele
310.
Mary | May 13, 2011 at 9:42 am
Thanks for the clarification!
311.
Rivka | May 14, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Happy I stumbled on this blog. I was born in the US but moved to Australia when I was 5. I want to file a N600K for my kids through my father, however, he has a unique situation. He was not born there, he moved to USA as an adult from Russia, he was virtually stateless until he received his citizenship 5 years later. so yes, he lived there for 7 years but only 1 as a US citizen. Does this mean we will qualify? I have tried to find the answer but nothing specifies. I have no idea where to ask or what to do. $600USD is no small fee to lay out just to take the chance. I do know that on this basis he was able to acquire citizenship for his own kids that weren’t born there. But that was done by the embassy in Australia, perhaps they didn’t pick up on this or the rules are different! If you don’t know the answer, could you tell me perhaps who can help me?
Thanks
312.
Michele Wolgel | May 22, 2011 at 8:56 am
There is NO requirement that he lived there for 5 years with Citizenship
You just need to prove that he lived there for 5 years and that he is a Citizen
I have a client who lived there for 10 years and returned to Israel 1 week after he got his Citizenship and his Grandchildren all got their Citizenship through this path
Luckily for you your situation is not that unusual you just need the proof that he lived there for the 7 years that he did and again the proof of Citizenship
Michele
313.
Rivka | May 23, 2011 at 6:44 am
Thank you very much! I tried getting the answer through 2 US immigration lawyers. One wanted to charge me $750 for the research it would entail to find out. The other one claimed that you can only acquire citizenship through a grandparent if the US citizen parent was deceased! Even though I told her that I have a few friends who have done it, she continued to insist! Not very comforting to know these professionals don’t know their stuff.
Another question, is it true that they wont’ allow you anymore to choose the office of application (ie where you want your application to be processed). I read somewhere this would be the new law, has it changed yet? I would like to have my application processed in Hartford, CT.
and one more question. Do you recommend I apply for all my 6 children at once, or do one at a time. Financially I can’t afford a trip to the US from Australia with 6 kids at once, however, I am concerned the laws will change til I get to do one at a time.
Many thanks,
Rivka
314.
Rivka | May 31, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Does my father have to have received his citizenship before I was born? He lived in the USA for 7 years during which time I was born (about 2 years into it) and got his citizenship a year before he left. was born there and have a US birth certificate and passport.
Sorry, I just need to know I am for sure eligible to apply before i bother with 6 kids!
Thanks
315.
Celine | May 20, 2011 at 7:17 pm
Hi Isranglo,
I have an appointment for my children at the Raleigh-Durham (NC) field office in August. Out of curiosity, I’ve read the Oath of Allegiance and now come up with a question about dual citizenship. My kids are French & I’m a dual French-US citizen (born in France of a USC mother, naturalized at birth at the Embassy). What about the oath of renunciation (of previous nationality) and allegiance (to the US) ? Is it just some arcane wording or should they renounce their French citizenship (anyway, they don’t speak English… They’re 5 and 9 and I guess I’ll be reading for them.. ??) ?
Thanks for this precise but crucial point…
Celine
PS : I’ve been checking at your tvteaches blog which is great ! Would you recommend a specific program for my little ones to really get into English speaking ?
316.
Willow | May 22, 2011 at 9:40 am
Hi Celine,Just in April both my kids got their US citizenship (11 and 13) and they specifically said that until the age of 14 the Oath of the Allegiance is waived and she actually crossed it out on the form! So no problem there. And in any event, being minors I don’t think that their citizenship can be renounced (mine are Italian).
317.
isranglo | May 22, 2011 at 9:26 am
Celine
. The site is still new as you can see but look at thissite. This piece on US citizenship was a single posting and now it’s basically the main hub of the site so here’s hoping. 
I’m glad you’re enjoying my tvteaches blog – thanks for visiting and if you’re visiting my sponsors thank you even more. Maybe the pennies google gives me for people clicking on my ads there will help me pay for the webhosting
Advice as to what programs would really get their English jumpstarted. Well the truth is that the best place to ask that would be on the tvteaches.com site but since you ask already I’d note that it really depends on the kids’ ages. For very beginning readers I’d recommend the Leapfrog series and “Between the Lions” but if they’re older kids that would likely seem babyish to them. You can also try my webstore/resource center at http://tvteaches.com/tv-teaches-kiducation-corner/ and try browsing by subject (in this case English) and/or age to see what programs I’ve recommended for different ages (both the programs above appear there. And of course as I expand the site you’ll be able to read my reviews of those shows (both the above have been reviewed already) and how they worked with my kids.
Now regarding your citizenship question it’s an interesting issue. Personally I never had to take any such oath when I took my kids there. The oath of allegiance to the US shouldn’t be a problem in any case even if they do have to take it as you can simply argue that the US and France are allies and uphold the same principles and therefore there’s no conflict (if there ever was a serious conflict you might have to choose but then likely the difference would have to be so glaring that the choice would be easy). Remember that when you swear an oath to America you’re swearing it to the principles of the nation and not to agree with the philosophy of a specific administration.
I went searching for you now and I found reference to the renunciation (appearing WITHIN the oath) to the extent that ‘it’s there but not legally binding or enforceable’ I’m guessing that’s the case since as I mentioned my kids never had to take it at all (or I for them).
Perhaps our resident legal expert Michelle could clarify whether there’s anything legal at all to be concerned about if regard to give the statement of renunciation. For myself, I suspect that while if (heaven forbid!) your kid ever became a dangerous criminal or terrorist and they were looking for something on which to hang a cause for which to revoke citizenship they might be able to hold that up as a legal excuse but other than that there’s nothing to worry about. But of course if Michelle knows differently I’m open to correction.
318.
Michele Wolgel | May 22, 2011 at 11:14 am
There should not be a problem with the pledge of allegiance
Many of my clients have 3 citizenships and the U.s. never gives a problem. There are however some other countries that do not allow and the child needs to decide, usually on 18th birthday which Citizenship they want to maintain. Holland and I believe Canada do not allow more than 1 or 2 Citizenships.
Michele
319.
arinak | May 22, 2011 at 2:36 pm
My children have Israeli, Canadian and US. I do as well and have not had a problem. Good luck
320.
Michele Wolgel | May 22, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Glad to hear that
So I know there are others but as far as I know Holland for sure does not like multiple Citizenships.
Michele
321.
Celine | May 23, 2011 at 2:45 am
Isranglo, Michele, Arinak and Willow
Thanks for your contributions. This blog is definitely a warm place to hang around !
322.
Michele Wolgel | May 23, 2011 at 7:23 am
Rivka sorry you had such a bad experience with Immigration Lawyers, most American Immigration Lawyers do in fact know the law and I don’t know any who charge that much for a consult.
However while there might be a change in the future you can still pick the office of your choice. While Hartford used to be one of my favorites I no longer send there. How many children to do is up to you but you should bear in mind that if the law does change then you will not be able to pick the office the next time so if you’re making the trip it might pay to take all. Also as I’m sure you know you have to complete the process before your child’s 18th Birthday!
Michele
323.
Rivka | June 29, 2011 at 2:37 pm
Do you know when the law is changing regarding choosing the office of application? I am trying to do this asap but just want to know if I have to worry yet.
324.
Rivka | May 24, 2011 at 3:18 am
My friend who did 6 of her kids in Hartford (one every year) just had a terrible experience for the last 4 and her file in fact got transferred to Vermont who processed it within a day! (after waiting months and months for Hartford)
Do you know which office near NY or CT has the best reputation and fastest processing times?
Thanks for your help
325.
Sarit | May 24, 2011 at 9:20 am
I submitted my applications for both my daughters in the beginning of March. It was sent to Hartford, CT office.
As you suggested, I’ve included a letter explaining my “special” situation. I did all by myself and did not use an attorney. I just made it very organized and included all documents.
I also included an email address (that was an excellent tip!!), as couple of weeks after submitting the applications, they have notified me by email with the reception of the applications.
Not only that, but couple of weeks ago, I’ve received an email from the Vermont office. They mentioned my applications were reviewed by them, and now ready for interview scheduling!!
They even asked me if I’d like to be handled in the Vermont office, or prefer that they return the paperwork to Hartford, CT..
As I managed to communicate over the email with this nice lady from Vermont, I kindly asked her to get the interview in Vermont.
She was so nice that I even asked for a specific date in August, and she confirmed it!
The interview invitations were received by email for both my daughters. The entire communication was done ever the email and it was great!!
I hope all will go well, and I will write about my experience when I’ll get back.
Thank you again for your wonderful and helpful blog.
Sarit
326.
isranglo | May 31, 2011 at 11:55 pm
Sarit
) If you approach them directly with a personal appeal there’s a better chance that they’ll relate to it then if you just send another impersonal run of the mill application.
It’s always nice to hear about success stories like this. It’s also gratifying that my tips provided concrete help in helping you navigate the system.
What I found most impressive was the fact that you had a means of direct communication with the office. Not all offices provide that service and some do sometimes and don’t others. It makes things much easier when you have an actual contact there to talk with. I believe that at least part of your getting that service may have something to do with the letter you wrote and included in your package. After all, just because someone’s a bureaucrat doesn’t mean that they’re not human as well (sometimes, anyhow
I look forward (as I’m sure we all do) to hearing about your experiences in Vermont when you return with your 2 new citizenettes
327.
Rivka | May 24, 2011 at 12:16 pm
Sarit, as you say your file was transferred to Vermont. How do I know that if send mine to Hartford it will get transferred to Vermont? Also, you say you included a letter explaining your “special” situation. I don’t have a special situation. I just want this to happen as quickly as possible.
328.
Sarit | May 24, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Rivka, I think that you can send the application directly to Vermont, can’t you? They were very nice and things move fast over there. You don’t have to include any letter if you feel you have it all in order. What you can do is to include a “thank you” letter and conclude it with your phone number and email address for any questions they might have.
The application should be complete and should include all supporting documents. I made the documents very organized and included sticky notes per each document explaining the purpose of each document
Make sure you have your email included in the application as well.
I hope this will help.
Sarit
329.
Rivka | May 24, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Sarit, I can, its just that I prefer Hartford bc I have family there. I don’t even know where Vermont is.
330.
Sarit | May 24, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Rivka,
It’s not very far. It’s around 260 Miles away from Hartford. It should be around 4 to 5 hours drive (from Hartford to St. Albans in Vermont).
Sarit
331.
Avi | May 27, 2011 at 10:17 am
Does anyone know the fee for filing an N-600K form by a grandfather on behalf of a deceased citizen parent? From the N-600K instructions it isn’t clear if it’s $550 or $600.
Thanks,
Avi
332.
Sarit | May 30, 2011 at 10:40 am
Avi,
Get ready to pay 600 USD per application..
The 550 one is in case of a deceased US citizen parent or if you are filing on behalf of an adopted minor child.
333.
Avi | May 30, 2011 at 11:33 am
I’m talking about the case of a deceased citizen parent. The question is – how much does a grandfather who is filing instead of his deceased son have to pay? Is it $550 or $600?
Thanks,
Avi
334.
Michele Wolgel | May 30, 2011 at 12:00 pm
It is in fact $450 if you are filing by a grandparent on behalf of a deceased parent. Please note also that this filing needs to be done within 5 years of the parent’s death
Michele
335.
Michele Wolgel | May 30, 2011 at 12:01 pm
I meant $550 hit the wrong key
Michele
336.
Rivka | May 30, 2011 at 2:54 am
Does anyone know anything about or has applied at the office in Hawaii?
Its much closer to Australia than the rest of USA.
337.
Sara | May 31, 2011 at 11:03 am
Hi,
Has anyone applied to the Pittsburgh office or heard if they process the applications fast?
Regarding the following..
4) proof that you have custody of your child – is the printout in Hebrew or English (is it the attached piece of paper to the teudat Zeut)?
Thanks,
Sara
338.
isranglo | June 1, 2011 at 12:07 am
Sara
ah and this is the 64 million dollar question…
first of all, for the nonIsraelis out there and especially for those readers coming from countries where people are not required to carry identification I’ll just point out that a “teudat zehut” is an Israeli identity card which all citizens are required to have (and by the strict sense of the law obliged to have on them at all times). It comes in a plastic case in which besides the card which has the holder’s identification on it there’s also a piece of paper with their address on it and also details and ID numbers of their children who are still minors.
Now in answer to your question Sara there’s no precise answer to it and it cost me a ton of time talking to the INS national calling center as well as a number of emails to find that out. They refuse to tell you what you need to have in order to prove custody. In the case of a divorce of course it’s simple, but go prove that your child that is with you is in your custody. There’s no document for it – just circumstantial evidence and as they explained to me “the burden of proof is on the applicant” to satisfy the case officer. If they want to be a stickler about things they can put you through hell but in my experience they never make a big deal about it.
I’d presume that the Israeli ID card would work but you’d need to have it translated. In my case what I did was to ask at the ministry of the interior for printouts of mine and the child’s vitalstatistics from the national population registry which show us both at the same address and had that translated. You likely don’t need that but I already was at the ministry anyhow to get the bilingual birth certificate printed out so I asked them to do that as well.
339.
Rivka | May 31, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Does my father have to have received his citizenship before I was born? He lived in the USA for 7 years during which time I was born (about 2 years into it) and got his citizenship a year before he left. was born there and have a US birth certificate and passport.
Sorry, I just need to know I am for sure eligible to apply before i bother with 6 kids!
Thanks
340.
Michele Wolgel | May 31, 2011 at 4:43 pm
the quick answer is no it’s fine if he got it after you were born and yes your children are eligible
Michele
341.
Rivka | June 1, 2011 at 1:45 am
that sounds worrying-”quick” answer. What’s the long/slow answer?
Thanks
342.
Rivka | June 1, 2011 at 1:53 am
I need to know what I can provide as proof of evidence of my father’s physical presence. He wasn’t really working bc he didn’t have proper papers/citizenship when he was there til before he left. I have a copy of the deed to his house, a letter stating he was enrolled in the Kollel but they are unable to give me a transcript (it was 30+ years ago), an affidavit sworn by a friend that he lived near him and knew him. Will this be enough? What else can I provide. Would copies of my siblings’ US passports help? (They weren’t born there and got naturalised in Australia).
343.
isranglo | June 6, 2011 at 1:32 am
Rivka
an afadavit might help but isn’t ironclad. If you can get a letter from the kollel stating he was there for the entire time that might also help. Basically any supporting evidence helps to build an at least circumstantial case. There are no 100 percent guarantees with this though and so your best bet might be to talk to someone such as Michele (who unlike myself is an actual lawyer). I created this site based on my experience and on the assumption that the vast majority of cases are straightforward and don’t actually require legal advice and fees. That said, those with more complex cases might feel more confident consulting a lawyer and based on the answers Michele has always provided here she certainly seems to know her stuff.
344.
Rivka | June 22, 2011 at 2:29 am
So how do I contact Michele?
Also, I have a few letters from my father that attest to his working there, being a student in the kollel but they were faxed to him when he was naturalizing his own kids, so they are not originals, is that going to be a problem?
I have a letter (unoriginal) that he was enrolled in the Yeshivah for the full period of 8 years. Now that I have asked the yeshivah to prepare a transcript, he will only do it for 1 1/2 years of that time. I am at a loss of what to do, if I should submit the letter or just the transcript? Surely there are people who weren’t studentts the entire time they resided there. Do I have to show something for every year of the 5 years? Will a letter from the Rabbi of the shule he attended help?
Many thanks for your help
345.
Karen Morgan | June 2, 2011 at 2:42 pm
First I want to thank you for your blog. I have 2 questions:
1- Do I have to send the prove that I have full custody (I am not divorce) when I send the application forms? or I prove that in person when they ask for the interview?
2- Do you have any idea about Dover office?
Thank you.
346.
isranglo | June 6, 2011 at 1:37 am
my pleasure
1) copies of ALL things pertinent to your case should be sent with the application. That way if what you send isn’t enough then they can tell you what you need to add before you make the trip and if it is sufficient then they’ve accepted it and you don’t have to worry about it further. Naturally all originals should travel with you in a nicely organized manner (I personally use a looseleaf with plastic sheets for document holding) to the US for the interview.
2) I don’t know but possible someone else here will.
347.
Karen Morgan | June 6, 2011 at 2:24 pm
Do I have to take the originals, like my fathers birth certificate ?
Thanks again.
348.
Avi | June 4, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Can US documentations (certificate of naturalization, school report cards, marriage certificate, etc.) be notarized by an Israeli lawyer, or do they have to be notarized at the US embassy?
Thanks,
Avi
349.
isranglo | June 6, 2011 at 1:48 am
Avi
) do solemnly affirm that I am fluent in English and (fill in other language) and am competent to translate this (name of document)” and sign their name. That’s always been sufficient at the field offices I’ve applied to though of course if this has changed I’m sure Michele or someone will inform us 
But that’s been my experience thus far.
in my experience they can be notarized by anyone because notarization is unnecessary. If you did need something notarized it would have to be by a US notary (and thus at the embassy) as israeli notaries have no standing in the US as far as I know.
But why would you need notarization for any of the above? A US certification of naturalization is a US government document. The only school report cards of any use to you in such a case are those of US based institutions and a marriage certificate is a governmental certificate which is either American in origin and this on record there or a foreign one in which case an official foreign document.
The only place where you might have thought you’d need notarization is on translations of foreign documents and here too I’ve never needed any anytime I went. All they ever required was that the translator certify the document (not notarize) meaning essentially that they sign a statement on the top of the document which approximately says “I Harold Shmatholovichsteinberg (or whatever, should he happen to have a different name
350.
Michele Wolgel | June 6, 2011 at 7:44 am
There is in fact no notarization of documents needed just a certified translation
The one thing I will add to this is that the translator should not be a relative and they need to write their contact info as well as title i.e. English teacher, accountant or whatever they do that would presume that they know both languages, many offices are getting stricter about this, obviously if I certify there is no problem as I am a lawyer in both countries
Last when a notarization is needed like if there is an affidavit when there is not enough evidence or when there is a legitimization by a USC father then an Israeli notary is fine no need to go to the Counsel/Embassy
An Israeli notary looks and is official and I have never had a problem submitting papers with my Israeli notary seal, ribbon etc.
If is really a serious document then an apostile seal can be added making it valid in USA under the Hague Convention.
Michele
351.
Avi | June 6, 2011 at 6:40 am
I’m worried from the case that the original documents get lost/stolen/ruined. At the interview they require original documents, and the question is if they will be willing to accept copies that were notarized by an Israeli lawyer (and not at the embassy). Reading the embassy web page isn’t completely clear.
352.
Michele Wolgel | June 6, 2011 at 7:46 am
Rule you NEVER send originals
Only regular copies, if they require originals you bring to interview
Michele
353.
Avi | June 6, 2011 at 1:22 pm
They always require originals at the interview. I prefer not to fly with originals – I prefer to fly with notarized copies of the original documents. The question is if such documents are considered originals if notarized ny a non-embassy lawyer.
Thanks,
Avi
354.
Michele Wolgel | June 6, 2011 at 2:25 pm
They do not always require originals it depends on the office
You can do an “Ishur Tzilum Notary” it costs 72 shekels for each page
If you are taking originals it’s cheaper to just take them as it would be cheaper to replace than to notarize and also they still can ask for an original.
Michele
355.
Maureen Murnane | June 14, 2011 at 7:10 pm
Hi, I just got called for an interview with my three children in Charleston, South Carolina for the 29th June. I won’t be able to make that appointment and would like to contact them by phone, email so that I arrange another appointment. Does anyone know any contact details for this office?
356.
mimi | June 16, 2011 at 10:01 pm
im usa citizen grandparent daughter citizen husband and she going to us for post-doc
husband on j-1 visa what visa does child need if around same time apply for citzenship through grandparent can they choose field office or go to closest field office where they will live
357.
isranglo | July 17, 2011 at 9:57 pm
I forget what it’s called but don’t worry. Once you tell them at the embassy or consulate where you live what you need the visa for they’ll let you know what you need. But as for which field office they need to go to it’s to whichever one is handling their case. So if for example she’s planning to be in New York she’d best apply to one of the east coast offices in that region that she’ll be able to reach for the interview. When applying you can apply to whichever one you want but once you’re in the system at a given field office you need to interview at that field office barring a special request which is unlikely to be fulfilled and even if fulfilled will likely seriously affect the time frame in which you’re likely to get an interview.
358.
Renee | June 21, 2011 at 6:40 pm
I am so glad that I found this blog. As a result, I was able to find out that my son is entitled to citizenship through his grandfather. His father was born in the USA, but despite the fact that he has been here most of his 52 years, was not in the US 2 years after his 14th birthday and before my son’s birth in England. My son has been in the USA since 22 months and is now 26!
Today, I contacted the USCIS (who are so helpful by the way …) My fear was that my son’s grandfather dies in 2009. The officer said, “It doesn’t matter!” If you can prove that his grandfather filled all the requirements … i.e Is a US citizen, lived 5 years in USA with 2 years after 14th birthday ,,, We have his grandfather’s birth certificate, military records, etc.
I am really just writing this to let anyone else out who may be in a similar situation! The US immigration laws, especially INA 320 on child citizenship with all the amendments is so incredibly complicated!
GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF YOU TRYING TO APPLY!!!
359.
Tzvia | June 21, 2011 at 11:28 pm
Hello all,
I’m looking for information.
A friend told me that once I have completed the n-600k procedure for my first son, I can do this for my newborn without traveling to the USA.
I have not found any details on it. does anybody know more?
thanks
360.
isranglo | July 17, 2011 at 10:02 pm
Tzvia
. However if you want them to get citizenship you’re going to have to apply separately for each one and take them to the US. It is true that if you haven’t submitted your older son’s N600k yet that you can submit for both kids at the same time (2 packages put into a larger envelope) and request (in a letter in the larger envelope) to have both cases taken by the same field officer and be put together so that you can bring them both together. But you can’t get citizenship through the grandparent law without interviewing in the US.
indeed you can fill out an N600k for your newborn without going to the US. You could fill it out for your older son without going there as well
361.
Michele Wolgel | July 17, 2011 at 10:05 pm
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Michele
362.
Michele Wolgel | June 22, 2011 at 7:00 am
Michele can be contacted by googling Michele Wolgel or contacting my by email at;
lawyer@wolgelaw.co.il
363.
Rivka | June 23, 2011 at 1:45 am
Hi Michele,
I want to know what evidence I should be providing for my father’s physical presence in the US. He emigrated to USA as a DP from Russia and was virtually stateless for the first 6 years he was there and then a year before he left he got his US citizenship.
I have a copy of the deed to his house;
He has no utitlies bills;
I have a letter stating that he worked in an organsation as a volunteer (he has no employment records or ss records bc he wasn’t a citizen and not really allowed to work); This is not an original as it was faxed to him when he applied for naturalisation of his own kids, will this be OK?
I am getting a letter from the Yeshivah/school where he studied – does this have to be a transcript? And it is not for the 5 years but rather 1 1/2.
I have 2 affidavits sworn by friends who knew him;
I can get a letter that he was a member of the synagogue there, would that help?
Shall I provide copies of my siblings’ US passports, those that were naturalised abroad based on his citizenship and physical presence? Will that help?
What has to be original or is it everything?
Thanks
364.
Michele Wolgel | June 27, 2011 at 1:16 pm
I cannot answer this question unless i see the documentation
Michele
365.
Pter | June 24, 2011 at 7:21 am
Hello,
First of all, thank you for all these helpful information. I am just starting the N600K process for my 2 children at the San Francisco DHS office. Has anyone ever applied at this office before? I am a bit worried about the time process.
Thanks again.
Pter
366.
adam | June 27, 2011 at 11:40 am
does anyone know – whtheaer there is a change in attitude of the us government about an unmarried cuple which have an agrimennt {heskem mamon} i am us citizen and my mother was my spouse – is not a us citizen – what are my chances are on getting it for my children does anyone know?
367.
Michele Wolgel | June 27, 2011 at 1:08 pm
If you are the biological father of the children and they live with you and you fit the other criteria for Citizenship then you are in fact entitled to file under this clause.
Together with the filing we need to submit papers showing that the children have been ‘legitimized by you”
I have done this successfully in several offices.
Michele
368.
adam | June 28, 2011 at 3:30 am
i am in fact the bilogical father of the kids – and answer to the other criteria for citizenship- what papers would i need to submit to show that the cildren have been legitimized by me ?
thank you Michele
369.
Michele Wolgel | June 28, 2011 at 7:45 am
This is a case that i really don’t give answers on line
I have however done this for my clients
Michele
370.
Lee | June 28, 2011 at 10:29 am
,
Im planning on submitiong form n600k for my child. I read that I shopuld send proof of custody of the child ( even if I am merried to the childs father ). Id that really nececery? if so, how do I obtain such proof?
thank you
371.
isranglo | July 17, 2011 at 10:11 pm
Lee
ah the age old conundrum which the USCIS won’t actually answer (I know, I tried to get them to commit to a straight answer by phone for ages). According to them (and leaving aside their polite telephone way of saying it) their essential answer was “the burden of proof is on you. You have to figure out how to prove it and we’ll accept it or not.” Being as there’s no actual answer, I can tell you that my method has been to get ahold of official documentation showing that the child and I both reside at the same address and that’s generally been enough for them. But yes it IS moronic (since a married couple has to prove custody and only once their divorced can anyone have guaranteed documentation) that married couples have to prove custody. Still, that’s their law!
372.
tugova | June 29, 2011 at 11:51 pm
hi
we have gone through this process and now we have to issue visas for the kids any myself, the mom who is not the American citizen.
What kind of visas do I need? the regular visas b1/b2 that Israelis are using? do I have a different procedure because my husban is a citizen? do I need the K visas for the kids.
I’ll be gratful for some answers.
tugova
373.
Michele Wolgel | July 17, 2011 at 10:16 pm
All of you need a B1/B2 Visa a K is for a fiancee
Michele
374.
Shai | July 2, 2011 at 10:03 pm
Hi, I am new to this site but I have already gotten very far forward in the process of getting my two sons (14 & 6) their American citizenship through the grandparent law. I applied in May via the RI office of USCIS and received a positive response via e-mail telling me everything was OK with my documents and I need to come for the interview already at the beginning of June (!) We have now made our plans to go in August to the States to finalize the process, but I need some advice on certain outstanding issues. 1) according to the last message I got from the office in RI they say I can only book an appointment two weeks before we come via the infopass service. This is a bit complicated because we have to plan what dates we will be in Providence and book a hotel or something in the vicinity. The clerk who sent me the message claims that I will be able to book a date for an interview according to my needs. Is this true by your experience? 2) After we do the interview and get the certificates of citizenship, do they issue the boys with American passports in the same office? And if so does it happen on the spot or do we need to come back to pick them up? If so, how long can it take? If not, how does it work, because we have to have passports for them before they can leave the States. 3) If we want to get them also social securit numbers, where do we go for that and how long does it usually take to get them to issue the cards? All these questions have to do with the amount of time we will be stuck in RI and when can we move on. I really would appreciate any advice based on prior experience on these practical matters. Thank you in advance, Shai.
375.
isranglo | July 17, 2011 at 10:30 pm
Shai
) and this is more relevant to that than here on the blog where I give general answers.
This is quite a detailed letter. I’ll soon be offering my services privately for consultations on N600k citizenship services (by now I think I can fairly be considered an expert
That said I’ll throw out a couple of thoughts for your consideration. 1) this is either a new development or specific to Rhode island as most places insist on setting the date for you a long time in advance. Many people would PAY to be able to set up an appointment just 2 weeks beforehand.
2) not a chance. In fact the real way you’re supposed to do things is to get a social security number BEFORE the passports because if I remember correctly they want your SS number when you fill out the passport forms. passports I seem to recall can be done at many regular post offices in the States (there are also passport centers where you can get it done faster apparently). The passports can take 1-3 weeks. In special circumstances it can be rushed somewhat but it does take time HOWEVER it doesn’t really matter because they don’t need their US passports to leave. I left with my kid in 2008 on his Israeli passport. In fact I was advised by a big cheese at a large US airport that they actually PREFER that the kid leave on that passport because it’s the one they come in on and if the kid leaves on a different one it messes with their bureaucracy. So when the passport arrived too late I just went with the Israeli one (no problem) and had the other one sent on to israel (I could have also chosen to do it through the embassy upon returning).
3) social security cards are applied for at a social security office. You can look up a relevant one by googling it – likely it’ll be not so far from the uscis. There’s also a good chance they’ll know where to send you for it. But oh was that ever a mess – much worse than the passports. They wanted 2 pieces of proof as to the child’s identity and wouldn’t accept 1) the Israeli passport (the kid’s now a US citizen thus anything issued by a foreign government claiming him is disregarded) 2) the US government issued visa inside the Israeli passport (the kid’s a US citizen hence the visa’s invalid and can’t be used for ID) and of course as the kid doesn’t have a passport (since he needs the ss number) you can’t use that. The naturalization certificate would be fine but the computers don’t automatically update so it can take up to a week and a half before its considered valid ID. Oh and you have to state to them at the time you apply for the SS number that you wnat to be told the number ahead of time (before getting the card) and then by going back to the office you can get it in about 10 days while the card itself can take up to 3 weeks.
376.
Michele Wolgel | July 17, 2011 at 10:36 pm
This is the procedure in Rhode Island and only Rhode Island to the best of my knowledge and has been so for many years.
It is actually not as convenient as it sounds since you don’t have an exact date until 2 weeks before and sometimes the infopass is down and it is not user friendly.
Michele
377.
lee | July 7, 2011 at 5:50 am
Im applying for citizenship for my child. Do i need to send in proof of custoday ( Her fother and I are merried ).
thanks.
378.
Michele Wolgel | July 17, 2011 at 10:38 pm
This is the procedure in Rhode Island and only Rhode Island to the best of my knowledge and has been so for many years.
It is actually not as convenient as it sounds since you don’t have an exact date until 2 weeks before and sometimes the infopass is down and it is not user friendly.
Michele
I left out however it does in fact work and you will get an appointment in the time period that they told you,
379.
Paula | July 18, 2011 at 11:53 am
Hi. Thank you for creating this site.
I am in US citizen living in Australia and want to file N600K forms for my two children using my father’s residency (he was born in the USA).
I have a few questions I am hoping someone can help me with.
Are the processing times listed on the USCIS accurate? If it says 5months, is that 5months till you get a letter giving you an interview or 5months till your interview?
My children have Australian passports. Can they enter the USA using the VWP for their interview?
Just with my Father’s residency. Is there any documentation that is considered “iron clad”? What is the best evidence to have?
Do I need to submit my father’s birth certificate or is a copy of his US passport enough?
Thank you
380.
isranglo | August 7, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Paula
the processing times are accurate up to a point. They try to aim for those times and in some cases do and others don’t. It really varies from center to center.
There is documentation that’s iron clad for somethings and not for others. For example a birth certificate is a birth certificate. However in other areas such as “proof of residency” for your dad to show he lived in the US for 5 years (or possibly 10 years if it was during a certain time period) and proof you have custody of your child there isn’t anything ironclad though some documents work better than others. No guarantees though. On the bright side the likelihood is that they don’t call people to fly to the US until the flying there is just a formality. So if they call you already the odds are your documentation was considered sufficient.
yes you do need to submit his birth certificate.
381.
Paula | July 19, 2011 at 12:01 am
Sorry another question.
Has anyone had any experience with the office in Norfolk, Va. ?
Either Norfolk, Va or Charlotte, NC would be best for me. According to the USCIS website Norfolk is a 5 month wait and Charlotte is longer.
Thanks
382.
Michele Wolgel | August 8, 2011 at 7:44 am
In my experience North Carolina does not take 5 months even if the site says so and they are pleasant to work with
Michele
383.
Michael | July 25, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Hi
I would like to know if I can fill for SSN in any SSN office and get the SSN sent to Israel
384.
jacoub | August 6, 2011 at 11:12 am
Thanx for the nice blog , it was really helpful , but unfortunately i didn’t see it before i filled my n-600k forms ,
i have send 2 n-600k forms with 2 money orders and the evidence.and i have sent it to the NY office. that was 2 weeks back .
till now i didn’t get any email or mail ” the recipient of delivery .”.
should i be waiting for one or not ? how will i be sure that they processed the papers ? and when will they send me an email or mail for the next step . please advise asap.
385.
isranglo | August 7, 2011 at 10:10 pm
Jacoub
well the good news is you probably don’t have to worry about the ASAP. The bad news is it’s because this process can take a looong time. I’m sorry indeed that you sent the forms before finding this blog. I have often advised here never to send to the major processing centers. That is the centers located in cities with large immigrant populations such as New York, LA and Florida. That’s because most people DO register there since they generally plan to stay with or at least visit family when they come. Everyone from around the world and their brother have a brother/sister/cousin/3rd uncle twice removed in places like New York. I’ve personally been told of cases that took up to 8 years to process -without complications! I’d like to reiterate for those who haven’t sent the forms that if you have family in New York register in Philadelphia (busy but less than NY) or Rhode island or any small out of the way office drivable from the city (with some effort) but without that kind of major immigrant population.
Now that doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily always that way. You may get lucky and happen upon a quiet period there. But I certainly wouldn’t be worried about not hearing from them within a couple of weeks. Even in a normal center it can take awhile to hear anything from them at all – as long as a month or two sometimes. In New York it may well take far longer. Thre’s really no way I know of to get an answer on that question even if you could get a number. It’s a VERY busy center and you’re talking about a case for which you not only don’t have a case number to give them but aren’t even sure there IS a case number yet. Your only real choice is patience. Best of luck!
386.
Michele Wolgel | August 8, 2011 at 7:41 am
If you are really interested in speeding it up it can be done via another office
In addition to taking a long time to do anything New York asks for documents that other offices do not and even after they get to the case this will probably happen and will make it take even longer
I just moved one from New York and a week after I sent the request they sent a (RFE) request for more evidence.
In other words they first looked at it when they got the request to transfer, this was a year after filing.
The office who asked for the file for my client then contacted them saying they had already asked for the file. They got it after several tries and said it was complete and scheduled an interview.
Again I have done this from New York and from other offices and I would recommend doing it. I would be happy to put you in contact with my client’s who I have done this for.
Michele
387.
jacoub | August 8, 2011 at 8:37 am
how is it possible now to move the case from NY office to any other other office and i dont have any case number or anything , please advise
388.
Michele Wolgel | August 8, 2011 at 8:50 am
Basically as an attorney I can ask for the number through another office
i don’t know of a way to do it other than that
Michele
389.
marvinbik | August 22, 2011 at 11:12 pm
Can you please elaborate on the following quote from the messages:
“if you’re earning a non-American salary you can be eligible for up to $1000 per child per year from the US government till they turn 18″
What gov agency makes the payment. How to apply for the payment?
Is this actually an income tax deduction or cash payment?
Much thanks,
marvinbik
390.
Vinnie | August 25, 2011 at 1:01 pm
Hi
First off , Many thanks for all the helpful advice
I have used this blog to assist me in gathering all the documentation that I think should be required to apply for citizenship and I am now almost ready to file.
The only issue is that my children are still very young (18 months and 2.5 years).
I am considering delaying my application for another for few years until it will be easier to travel with them and to make a longer holiday out of the trip.
Although I’m sure its an impossible question to answer, I’m wondering if anyone has any thoughts on whether they expect the relevant legislation to change in the next few years.
My worry is that the law may be changed in the future so that it will no longer be possible to apply through the children’s grandfather. (I myself am a US citizen but do not satisfy the 5 year residency rule).
Any thoughts on whether these worries are unfounded and the law is unlikely to change or whether I should just go ahead and apply now while they are still eligible under current legislation.
Many thanks
391.
javoub | September 6, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Michele , How much would u charge to move two n-600k cases to other office and speed up the case ?
392.
isranglo | September 6, 2011 at 9:44 pm
lol somehow my non-profit site has gone pro
. I’ll let this through though because Michelle’s always so good about donating her time and expertise to helping people here. But Michelle if you ever set up an affiliate program don’t forget to cut me in for the traffic sent your way 
393.
shlomo | September 7, 2011 at 12:49 am
Wow, what an amazing site. It’s really kind of you to create such a site pure to help others without making money. I believe, you can count me as one more human being that will be able to go through this grandfather immigration process easily and successfully (hopefully), thankful to your site.
Just to sum up all the small important tips for a speedy and successful immigration process.
1) Attach email address with your documents.
2) Copy of Stamped Passport
3) A thank you letter added with all documents, make sure to add your phone number as well if they would have any questions or so.
Here are the offices which seems to go smooth and quickly according to the info provided within the comments of this site:
1) St. Albans, VT
2) Rhode Islands
3) Raleigh – Durham, NC
If anybody has any other speedy offices, feel free to reply.
394.
Michele Wolgel | September 7, 2011 at 5:34 am
It is Michele
You need to contact me personally for a price quote
My email is
Lawyer@wolgelaw.co.il
I do not intend to set up any affiliate program but I am happy to help out here and I think that anyone who has gotten to me trough this blog is happy they got to me
Hope we both keep up the good work
Michele
395.
Sarit | September 7, 2011 at 5:07 pm
Hello,
As promised, after we returned with 2 new American Citizens, here are the complete details about our Vermont experience.
Just a reminder.. We have filed 2 applications for 2 girls (2 & 8) and the applications were originally sent to Hartford, but they probably have forwarded the applications to St. Albans, Vermont, as we got the interview invitations via email from the Vermont’s office
Well, what can I say.. It was a great experience!
We arrived to the city of St. Albans, VT the night before the interview.
BTW, we stayed at the La Quinta Inn, which is 2 blocks away from the Citizenship & Immigration Services office.
Our interview was scheduled for 11:30 AM.
We arrived to the office 20 minutes ahead of time. You go through a security check up (very polite and fast).
Once cleared the security, we gave the invitations to a nice clerk behind a window..
While waiting at the lobby, the girls got some crayons and a color book from the security guy! It was surprising to see how nice these people are.
After few minutes, a nice lady came out to the lobby and invited me in. She said no need for the girls to come in, and the girls can stay at the lobby (with my husband).
In the room, she went through the applications with me (mainly to see if all names and personal details are correct).
Once done, I signed (under oath) that the information I’ve provided as correct. She asked me to go back to the lobby and that is should take few minutes to have the certificates ready for us.
After 10 minutes, the same lady came out to the lobby, she gave each of our girls an American flag (the small ones) and handed us the Citizenship certificates. It was a moment to remember!
Even that we knew ahead of time, she told us where the nearest Social Security offices are (58 Pearl Street, Burlington, VT) and that if we’d like, we can go there and take care of it as well.
The entire procedure took us about 20 minutes. Very nice, comfortable, and quick.
It is very important for you to know.. Immediately after the interview, we did went to the Social Security office in Burlington (40 minutes drive) and we filed the applications to get the Social Security numbers for the girls.
They do accept Israeli passports as a valid identification! So the passports together with the Citizenship certificates should do the work for you.
It took couple of weeks until we’ve received the SS numbers by mail to our address in Israel!
Make sure you have the application for SS ready before getting there. You can get it online here: http://www.socialsecurity.gov/online/ss-5.pdf
You will find there the instructions, but the application is only 1 page..
I hope you will find our experience helpful as we did use this blog and it was very helpful for us!
Thanks,
Sarit
396.
Willow | September 7, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Hi Sarit, sounds as smooth as my experience in Providence, RI. Just wanted to let others know, that for some reason, the Providence, RI Social Security office does NOT send SSN abroad. So I did that here in Italy but it was actually quite easy and could do it at the consulate in Florence, the same time I applied for their passports. We have the passports, but it will take some time for the SSN!
397.
crystal | September 9, 2011 at 8:05 pm
I have two children born in Canada, but the grandparents reside in the US and are citizens. Now their father is a greencard holder but resides in Canada with the children being over the age of 18 are they still eligible for the citizenship?
398.
isranglo | November 3, 2011 at 8:25 pm
complicated as this might be if the kids were under 18 if they’re over 18 the N600k isn’t for them.
399.
Avi | September 15, 2011 at 3:30 pm
Hi,
Great contribution, thanks.
I am the grand-parent (Israeli).
My wife, B, is the grandparent US citizen (by birth, in Israel, to two US citizens).
My daughter, G, is the US citizen parent (married to the biological father, an Israeli).
My granddaughter, R, is an Israeli, for whom we are starting the process of US citizenship application.
The mother, G, resided in the US for 3+ years, on a green-card, between the ages of 5 to 8. The grand-mother, B, resided in the US at the same time.
Then again, the mother G returned to the US at age 14+, and stayed there for 2 years and one day (without knowing the requirement). During that stay, she acquired the US citizenship, at the age of 15. She has left the US at age 16+. The grandmother B resided in the US at the same time, for the same length of time.
Both visited the US for short periods of time later on.
Questions:
1. Is there any minimum time interval which may count for the cumulative times required? If not, do short visit count?
What about short periods of leaving the US during a longer stay?
2. Are there any other requirements for any short period of time to qualify for the staying requirements?
3. Is it sufficient to provide the school records (high school), including grade scores, for 2 school years for the mother G, to qualify for the 2 years after turning 14, of is it needed to show strictly 2 years (2 X 365 days)?
4. As we may take either path, in principle, should we fill the information for both mother and grandmother, and let them judge the status from all the info?
5. Any info about offices in Detroit, MI, Washington DC?
6. Is there a US database (similar to the Israeli one) from which one can ask the data of entry and exit to/from the US?
Although this is a long post, I believe the issues are relevant and of general interest. Thanks very much for looking into it, Avi.
400.
isranglo | September 21, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Avi
This does sound rather complicated. Why was a green card necessary for G at all? how many years did B live in the US? For her to have lived there long enough to satisfy the grandparent clause G should have had citizenship automatically, no?
Be that as it may, if she only acquired citizenship at age 15 it seems likely the time count would start from then but perhaps Michelle would know with a certainty and will weigh in here.
I don’t know about how to string the times together to create a 5 year period but I suspect they want living rather than visiting as the criteria which would likely necessitate showing such things as residing at an address or social security records etc. In any event this is largely within the discretion of the case officer you’re assigned to as to how to approach such stays. I suspect too many things strung together would not be allowed while a permanent stay with a week here or there visiting outside the US would be allowed.
generally school years ARE counted as years as long as they’re accompanied by official transcripts from the school with the grades listed – but again it’s to some extent up to the case officer.
I would talk to a lawyer (Michelle perhaps as she seems to know what she’s doing based on my experience of her here though I can’t claimed to have needed her in my more straightforward case to assess which route you should go. Applying for the N600k will cost you several hundred dollars or so whether or not it’s ultimately approved so best to find out if your application this way makes sense at all.
I haven’t dealt with detroit but according to my rule of thumb (avoid places with large local immigrant populations), Detroit being a heavy muslim area you’re liable to end up backlogged from all the people from arab countries wanting to do the N600k while visiting their relatives in Michigan.
Good question about the database – haven’t heard that there is one but then again I didn’t specifically ask. If anyone knows I’d love to hear.
401.
Michele Wolgel | September 21, 2011 at 5:43 pm
Hi this is Michele
To answer briefly and to the point the rule is you can only file on one grandparent and it must be the parent of the USC (not the Israeli)
That Grandparent must have Citizenship today and have lived in the U.S. for a total period of 5 years, 2 after the age of 14.
It is irrelevant when during this 5 year period the Citizenship was obtained it could have been the day before the Grandparent returned to Israel or left the U.S not during the 5 year presence in the U.S., I even had one such case be happy to refer you to them.
Also the blogger is correct they do not like trips here and there but if the time can be proved it is in fact acceptable, if the only proof is Passport stamps then it would be hard to prove.
Last about Detroit I would go with the general thinking process of the blogger and have in fact heard bad things about that particular office the worst of which is you do not get the certificate on the spot which is certainly not the norm.
I lost which grandparent was which in the story but I hoped this answered the question.
Michele
402.
Michele Wolgel | September 21, 2011 at 6:22 pm
I just reread your post and want to point out that if the Citizen mother of your grandchild lived in U.S. for 5 years under any status and 2 of them were after 14 and she can prove it then she can in fact register all of her children at the Counsel.
However if during that last 2 year stay in the state you made any type of trip to Israel or out of the U.S. then she does not have the 2 years and one day after 14.
Michele
403.
shlomo | September 18, 2011 at 11:58 am
Hi,
Thanks for this amazing blog.
I have all paper work ready to send in, The only thing that I am missing is an American check for the $600 fee and I need that as soon as possible. Can anybody help or has anybody any suggestions?
An other question, on the form that explains you how to fill the n600k, doesn’t mentioned anything about showing a “marriage certificate”. Still, just to be on the safe side does anybody know if a marriage certificate is actually necessary?
404.
Willow | September 21, 2011 at 2:47 pm
In Italy the Italian embassy told me to get a cashier’s check in USD from an Italian bank that has offices in the US. Unfortunately the only bank in my neighbourhood that had that required that I have an account with them. Since I didn’t want to open up an account only for this reason in the end I sent my brother in the US money through Paypal and he got a cashier’s check for me at his own bank and sent it to me. I then sent off the package myself with the check in it. That check went around the world a few times
405.
isranglo | September 21, 2011 at 2:55 pm
willow – as you can see below in 396 (I mistakenly posted instead of replying) you’d have made things easier on the check by sending the package to your brother, letting him open it, put in the check and send it on to the INS
406.
isranglo | September 21, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Shlomo
I’d advise asking any Anglos you know in your neighborhood or elsewhere who do business with the US to help you out. Alternatively if you have a relative in the US you could send the package to them to mail on with an enclosed check from them and transfer the money from you to them in some other way (like cash) which they can receive but the INS won’t.
100% you need the marriage certificate and if it’s in another language (such as Hebrew for example) it needs to come with a certified translation (this doesn’t mean notarized – just taht it needs to be translated fully and accompanied by a statement from the translator to the effect that “I (their name) do hereby certify that I am fluent in (other language) and English and that the accompanying document is a true and accurate translation of the original (other language) version.”.
407.
Shlomo | September 22, 2011 at 6:05 pm
Thanks Isranglo for your reply.
I ended up receiving a check from Bank Hapoalim which has a brand in NY, so they’ve issued a check with US dollars with their American routing number on the bottom on the check. I heard Bank Le’umi, would be able to do the same thing.
I have send all necessary packages as of yesterday and I really hope, it will go smoothly as possible. I will keep you all posted how everything works out.
Thanks once again for this beautiful blog.
I wish you all the best.
408.
Maureen Murnane | September 23, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Isranglo
I have been called to the US on the 13th October for interview with my three children. I have been asked to bring original documentation to prove that I am the biologicial child of my parents. I have a US birth cert, however my first name was not added at the time of birth. I have telephoned the Department of Health who confirm it can take up to 90 days to have the name amended on my birth certificate. My question is, would a baptismal certificate which shows my name in full along with my parents names be accepted as being original documentation of myself and my parents. Please advise.
Regards
Maureen
409.
isranglo | October 4, 2011 at 2:16 pm
Maureen
I have no definitive answer for this. As with all documentation it’s really up to the field officer who takes your case. However I definitely would brings such a document with me if you have it as 1) what could it hurt? 2) as you say it’s not like you have the possibility of dealing with the US certificate on time anyhow.
I personally would take heart from a couple of things
1) The interview is generally a rubber stamp unless something’s seriously messed up. Since the birth certificate is part of the documentation that you were supposed to submit with your application I assume that they’ve seen it already and decided to let it go through since they’ve invited you for the final interview. 2) at my last interview they wouldn’t accept some official American documents (for ridiculous technical reasons) as valid but they did accept a letter from a local clergyman vouching for him as “proof” of my child’s identity. On the down side they were only willing to accept this letter from the head of a US born congregation so perhaps you could get your local clergymen to send a letter on your behalf to a local US branch of whatever church you belong to and have them vouch for you that could probably help. But as I said if they’ve invited you already you might not even need it.
410.
Michele Wolgel | October 4, 2011 at 3:10 pm
While in most offices it’s a rubber stamp some take it very seriously and do go through every paper.
Thus the Baptismal Certificate should work and if you can get an affidavit or 2 from people who knew you when you were born.
Don’t know where you live but if you live someplace where there is a family registry then you would be registered as their daughter with your date of birth
In Israel for example an ID card of a parent has all children listed.
Lastly you must have had something with your name to get your passport
411.
isranglo | October 4, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Ok I know it has nothing to do with the topic but as blogger and moderator (and with no ads even
) I can allow myself that privilege once in awhile – its not like I do this all the time! For those not familiar with it there’s a free site called virtapay I use and you can sign up for at http://www.virtapay.com/r/moshee that I’ve been using for awhile. They’re trying to become an alternative to paypal. They’ve been growing incredibly quickly and they now have a thing where they give anyone who joins 100 dollars plus another twenty dollars for each day you visit and of course for referrals. The money can be used to buy digital goods at their site some of which are quite nice and which I’ve seen selling for more (and real) money elsewhere.
Best yet they’ve started this thing where you can get all the goods for one cent apiece as long as you then click to rate what you got on a 5 star system. At the rate they’ve been expanding I think they’re going to be huge eventually and most people will have an account – so i might as well tell you about it early when you have a chance to reap the advantages and I get credit for telling you. And if you sign up it’s a nice (free) thank you for any good I may have done people here with the blog post. You don’t HAVE to sign up of course. You don’t even have to check it out if you really don’t want to. But if I don’t mention it then how will either of us know
. My referral link again is http://www.virtapay.com/r/moshee and if you do sign up then thanks in advance. 
412.
Michele Wolgel | October 4, 2011 at 3:26 pm
It’s certainly fine that you posted about virta pay
I would love to help you our but you need a Facebook account to join and I don’t have one
Sorry
Michele
413.
isranglo | October 18, 2011 at 10:58 am
Thanks Michele
.
Anyone who has facebook can check it out and if not not. I certainly have no hard feelings but hey if I don’t speak up noone knows to even look
Thanks in any case!
414.
Karen Morgan | October 13, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Hello. In order to prove required residence or physical presence in the U.S. Do you have any idea if I can submit tax returns for 5 years (where is the home address and paid as a permante residence), drivers license for 10 years (home address again? Do you think this is enough?
Thank you very much.
Karen
415.
isranglo | October 18, 2011 at 11:03 am
Karen
I don’t make the decision of course but to the best of my knowledge that’s excellent documentation. Government forms charging you money at a given address tend to be popular with the INS. A driver’s license I’m not sure of since you can get one day and then move house the next. If you have some way of showing that you were at that same address over a period of that many years it might work (for example a renewal of license sentto the same address after several years) it might work.. Tax returns tend to be sent to an official residence.
416.
DavidR | October 15, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Hi,
I wanted to thank you, Isranglo, for an incredible resource! It has given me the info I needed to get going and do this for my kids.
I had a few questions:
1. My Father is the Grandfather for the procedure in my case. He served for 4 years in the US Marines and I have the papers to show that. Does anyone know if that is acceptable proof for US residence during that period? Or if they’re going to wonder if he was out of the country during that time (like in Korea, for example)?
2. I’m trying to plan a vacation in the US for when I go to do the interview. I was wondering if anyone knows how much flexibility there is for transferring my case to a different office once it is sent to an office. Is it at all possible? Will it cause delays?
3. Does anyone have experience with the field offices in Denver or Salt Lake City? How long did you wait for an answer once you sent in the forms? How flexible were they when setting a date for the interview?
Thanks in advance!
- David
417.
Michele Wolgel | October 18, 2011 at 11:33 am
To the best of my knowledge service in the U.S. Military does in fact count as time in the U.S.
Denver is a wonderful office but they do not review the papers in advance so you need to make sure all of the papers are in order!!
Be that as it may none of my client’s has ever had a problem and because they do not review getting a date is easy
I filed once in Salt Lake City and they were not user friendly and did not work with email
Michele
418.
DavidR | October 23, 2011 at 8:09 am
Thanks very much for the information!
419.
isranglo | October 18, 2011 at 1:32 pm
David
glad I can help.
1) I don’t know for sure but I think that being in the armed forces is considered the same as living on US soil. Wasn’t one of the recent presidential candidates (Ketty maybe? not sure) born outside the US to a father military man serving at a base in Germany and yet he was allowed to run for president which is only open to US born citizens.
2) I’ve heard that transferring a case is possible but can be lengthy. I assume how the case is affected depends on the offices in question.
420.
Stacey Roca | October 17, 2011 at 10:54 pm
Hi, wonderful site, thank you.
I think I know the answer but;-
My Grandfather was born in the States and moved back to Italy aged 5. Never lived there over the age of 14.
He died in 1982 with a South African passport – Italian prisoner of war.
NO CHANCE right!?
Stacey.
421.
isranglo | October 18, 2011 at 2:54 pm
Sorry Stacey
I lived there till almost age 12 and another year past 14 and I can’t pass it on to my kids so you’re right – this method won’t work for you
422.
Michele Wolgel | October 22, 2011 at 10:37 pm
I want you to post important information. As of Sunday October 30th, 2011 there is no more direct filing of N600Ks
The cases will be filed centrally through the Phoenix Lockbox.
I am am uncertain what will then happen but i would guess they will review and that any RFEs will come from them and there will be no leeway in getting the requested paperwork back meaning more denials.They will probably mail the RFEs also giving less time to answer due to international mail.
Also I don’t know how the cases will then get channeled to the offices of our choosing
anyway I think anyone who is waiting to file should just send whatever they have by Fed Ex by Tuesday to one of the good offices and then they will be where they want.
I think this is a very important message for you to send out since I know that you have this blog to help people.
I am in fact now planning to work round the clock until Wednesday so if you could post this and also post that anyone who wants me to file for them or help them etc should contact me tomorrow or Monday!!
They can call me at 02 590 3444.
While obviously I will make money I really want to do it just to help people as I think you know after my help over this past year.
If you have any questions call or email me
Michele
423.
Robert | November 10, 2011 at 1:09 pm
We are very grateful to you for alerting everyone to the change in procedures and for your telephone assistance. We were able to submit our citizenship request at the last possible moment, and we already have received a positive response from the Providence office.
424.
sammyjo | October 20, 2011 at 4:17 pm
quick question;
Should i enclude the money order when sending the form and documentation?
Thanks!
Sam
425.
isranglo | November 3, 2011 at 8:22 pm
quick answer
yes – it’s a filing fee and thus should be sent with the forms being filed
426.
DavidR | October 23, 2011 at 8:12 am
Michele,
This information is very timely and helpful!
Could you list the offices you currently consider “good ones”?
Thanks,
David
427.
Michele Wolgel | October 23, 2011 at 8:23 am
I think you know the usual
Vermont
Albany
Fresno
Indiana
North Carolina
those are my top 5
Also Denver where they don’t review first but you need to have all before you show up!
Again not because i want to make more money and really not sleep but because people will be filing incomplete cases I would strongly recommend they contact me and use my services so that if when the offices ask for more papers I can take care of it as i have a good relationship with the clerks in those office
Michele
428.
Michele Wolgel | October 23, 2011 at 8:24 am
Again they need to arrive at the office by Friday!!
If you want to see the update itself send me a private email and I will scan it to you
MICHELE
429.
Paula | October 23, 2011 at 9:57 am
Hi
Would love some advice please.
I filed my sons n600ks at the beginning of August. The two offices closest to my family are Charlotte, NC and Norfolk,Va. I chose to file them at Norfolk.
After reading your list of good offices I am worried that I chose the wrong office and should have filed them in Charlotte not Norfolk. Does it really make a difference?
Change you change offices? Do you think I should?
Would appreciate any advice.
430.
Michele Wolgel | October 23, 2011 at 10:22 am
I can move it it Charlotte if you are interested
You are in good shape as your file is already there thus the change in filing doesn’t effect you
Michele
431.
Paula | October 23, 2011 at 10:39 am
Thanks Michelle
Would you mind giving me your email address so I could contact you directly please.
Thanks
432.
Michele Wolgel | October 23, 2011 at 10:55 am
lawyer@wolgelaw.co.il
433.
Rivka | October 29, 2011 at 2:04 pm
Hi,
I lodged applications for my 6 children early September. I sent them to Buffalo. I have not heard anything from them at all. Is this normal?
I did receive notification that they got the money order for the filing fees.
Thanks,
Rivka
434.
Michele Wolgel | October 29, 2011 at 6:56 pm
For Buffalo this is normal but remember no more sending directly to offices
Michele
435.
Michele Wolgel | October 30, 2011 at 3:56 pm
The date has now passed for direct filing of N600Ks
The below addresses are where to send any applications. The address depends on the method you use to send the application.
Please note that it is still uncertain if they will simply enter the applications into the system or actually process them at the lockbox.
Michele
USCIS
P.O. Box 20100
Phoenix, AZ 85036
To submit an N-600K via For Express Mail or courier deliveries, use the following address:
USCIS
Attn: Form N-600K
1820 E. Skyharbor Circle S
Suite 100
Phoenix, AZ 85034
436.
Bridget | November 3, 2011 at 8:48 pm
Also take note to use the NEW N-600K form which has a spot under the signature line on Page 5 for you to enter “Preferred Interview Location” and “Preferred Date” — Note says: Interview date should be at least 90 days after filing Form N-600K and before your (the child’s) 18th Birthday.
Date on the new forms is 08/01/11
437.
Rivka | November 1, 2011 at 1:10 am
I sent them in September.
So is Buffalo a slow office?
I remember asking on this blog what are the best offices? Somewhere I read Buffalo was quite good.
When can I expect to hear from them?
438.
Michele Wolgel | November 1, 2011 at 7:53 am
Buffalo is a good office you should hear soon
If you need a specific date say in December then you should think about moving but if not it should work naturally
Don’t worry
Michele
439.
Sylv | November 1, 2011 at 7:19 pm
Hi! I just wanted to say thank you for all the info you’ve posted on your website!!! It’s helped me so much – I was a few weeks short of being able to transfer my US citizenship to my child (left when I was 15 and 6 or 7 months – and visited multiple times afterwards). The law should really be changed – it’s so unfair!
I was told to provide proof that I am residing abroad (I’m in Canada on a work visa)… any idea what would be acceptable proof?
Thanks again!!
440.
isranglo | November 3, 2011 at 8:20 pm
Sylv
I hear ya – I left just before my 12th birthday and then did another year at a US college later but it’s still not enough. On the up side think of all the people who have gotten use out of this site who might have had more trouble with their applications if I had been able to pass it on directly and not figure out the grandparent process (and then pass on that info here) so out of bad came good
proof that you’re residing abroad? I assume a rental contract in the country you’re living in (in this case Canada) would work as would bills in your name sent to whatever address you live at from Canadian utility companies (phone, gas etc. things that are only relevant to a resident somewhere rather than something you’d buy in the store).
441.
Bridget | November 3, 2011 at 8:51 pm
Sylv — my situation is almost exactly the same as yours, I left at 15.5 years when my family immigrated to Canada 35 years ago.
I hadn’t seen anywhere the proof of residency in Canada, but if they ask for it I shouldn’t have any problem providing house deed, bills, employment records, etc.
I’m a bit under the gun with my son’s application, since he turns 18 next July, but am sending in his N-600K on Monday.
442.
Rivka | November 2, 2011 at 1:02 am
Oh, I didn’t know I would have such an option of trying to get a specific date. Actually my brother is getting married in England in 2 weeks and when I sent the applications in Sep I was sort of wishing we would be granted an appointment so we could take the whole family to the wedding and then do the citizenship in USA around the same time. I didn’t think I could do anything to hurry the process.
Too late now I guess.
443.
Michele Wolgel | November 2, 2011 at 1:59 am
I might be able to move it for you and get you there when you want
Call me 02 5903444
Michele
444.
Karen Morgan | November 14, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Hello again. I sent the files to the Hartford office and it arrive on October 29. Do you think they will keep my files there? How long does it take to get a notice of my cases status?
Thank you again, your blog has been a great help!!!!
Karen
445.
isranglo | December 1, 2011 at 9:12 pm
Karen
. While I can’t guarantee anything of course, generally speaking I’ve never heard of them moving a case to another office once it’s accepted at one office unless the APPLICANT specifically asked for the transfer so I’d say the chances are good that if you don’t want it moved they won’t move you on their own initiative.
glad I could help
446.
Shlomo | November 14, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Hi, I have send in all papers a while ago probably toward the end of September. They emailed me on September 30th letting me know that they received my case. (According the tracking number, they’ve received the forms on September 28th or 29th.) Then one day later (October 1st), I received again an email from them stating that I need to add proof of presence for my child’s grandparent. I didn’t really understand what exactly they meant by that, as I DID include a whole lot of school reports or school scripts as proof of presence for more then 5 years, more then what originally requested.
I thought perhaps, it wasn’t clear enough or so, so I scanned all school reports and emailed it to them immediately. I have since then not received a reply. It’s about 45 days from then.
Does anybody have any suggestion what I need to do now?
I am already here in America, as I moved here already about two weeks ago and my son’s tourist visa may not be valid for more then 3 month total from the day we came.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
Shlomo
447.
Michele Wolgel | November 14, 2011 at 5:53 pm
No matter what your wife needs to be at the interview not you
If you sent to Vermont it is very unusual that you haven’t heard yet
Michele
448.
Shlomo | November 14, 2011 at 5:24 pm
This is a continuation of my previous comment:
The main problem is that my wive it the one who is the american citizen and she would need to go together with my child for the interview which we will probably in St. Albany Vermont, as we’ve sent our n600k form over there. The thing is my wife is due in a bout one month and I really would like the interview to be still before my wife’s due date as afterwards it may not be possible for a little while.
Again, any suggestion or comments are highly appreciated.
Thanks Isranglo for this great blog.
Shlomo
449.
Michele Wolgel | November 14, 2011 at 5:54 pm
If you want me to try to straighten it out you need to contact me
We should be able to get it done ASAP
If they have the stuff already
Michele
450.
Jaime | November 15, 2011 at 10:15 pm
Dear Isranglo.
You are very kind helping our kids.
I like to know if the appointment letter would be mail to my overseas address or to the address I gave in the USA? .
I filed N-600k form to the Washington Field office 6 months ago and still waiting……
Best regards
451.
isranglo | December 1, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Jaime
I’ve never heard of the appointment letter being mailed anywhere other than to your home address (i.e. outside the US). After all that’s what these people are set up for – to deal with kids living in other countries. If the kid lives in the US they probably wouldn’t even need the N600k.
glad to be a help
a 6 month wait for an appointment isn’t unusual. My waits tended to be longer than that but all got here eventually. Have patience
452.
Michele Wolgel | December 1, 2011 at 9:26 pm
I hope that you used an address abroad if you file and say that you live at address in U.S. the cases should be denied since it would mean that you don’t reside abroad as the blogger stated if you lived in U.S. this would not be the right form
We’ll see
Michele
453.
Shlomo | November 21, 2011 at 8:47 pm
Thanks Michelle for the advice.
Just when I started to worry about not receiving a respond, I received a kindly email (one week ago) from the St. Albany office inviting me for an interview and mentioning that no further evidence is required. They gave me the option to choose 3 most convenient dates and they will do their best to available at these dates.
Just today, I received an other email confirming that my first date which is Wednesday has been confirmed. Within that email, they’ve mentioned that I MUST request an I94 when entering the US.
The problem is that I have entered the US already with my Vise Waiver (with a European Passport) and have therefore NOT received a I94. All what I have is the ESTA and a stamp with WT in it.
Any help, thought or advice is highly appreciated.
Shlomo
454.
Michele Wolgel | November 21, 2011 at 11:30 pm
The ESTA should be enough
455.
Ariela | November 26, 2011 at 8:22 pm
Anyone know how long it would take to get an appointment in Philadelphia? In NY? and in Chicago?
TIA
Ariela
456.
isranglo | December 1, 2011 at 9:22 pm
Ariela
To give an exact figure is near impossible – I had a friend of mine who applied to Philadelphia 9 months later than me and my appointment was for 1 week ahead of her. My own times in Philly differed between the 2 times I went there. Chicago (I suspect) and certainly New York can take ages. As I’ve noted many times before here if you can stay AWAY from large immigration type areas (NY, NJ, LA). Those places are full of people wanting to stay with relatives while in the US. Better from NY to apply to someplace like Philly or Hartford and make the drive up and back that particular day then register right there in NY but wait years to get processed to begin with!
457.
Toby | November 27, 2011 at 8:10 pm
First, thanks to all of you who contributed to the knowledge on this site. It was a tremendous help.
I am the US citizem grandmom, who, along with daughter and grandaughter, just returned from a successful trip. We filed in early Sept to the Baltimore office and were sent an invite within 10 days to be present for the interview on Nov 16. When our turn came, my daughter was called in to reiterate some of the stuff that was on the form we had filled out and sent to them, and then was asked to sign.
We were then told to wait a bit, and eventually given the certificate. All rather straightforward.
At the interview my daughter was told that she should apply for an emergency passport for her daughter in order to leave the US, but in accordance with the advice given on this site we did not do so, and had no trouble leaving the US with her Israeli passport.
I realize that in accordance with the new filing rules there may be changes in the procedures, but for this time around it was all rather easy if you have enough supporting paperwork, at least in the Balto office.
Again, thanks for the help.
458.
isranglo | December 1, 2011 at 9:24 pm
Glad you had a successful visit and that you know thanks to my experience that the emergency passport is unnecessary and to immigration officials even annoying (since they want you going out on the passport you came in on so their records will be nice and neat.
459.
Karen Morgan | December 1, 2011 at 7:42 pm
Hello. I am trying to download the form but it says “expires 11/30/2011″. So my question is do you have any idea when are they going to update form?
Thanks again,
Karen
460.
sally | December 16, 2011 at 8:45 pm
Do you have any information about recieving $1000 from U.S. goverment for children?
461.
isranglo | January 13, 2012 at 1:12 pm
Sally
. In any case they do do a good job for me and I get my money pretty fast and I believe in advertising those who have done a good job for me. Please note though that neither they (or anyone else I’d guess) will apply for the money for you unless you’ve already submitted your FBAR for the years you’re applying for. Of course the FBAR is a legal requirement for all Americans living abroad anyhow so you should be doing that regardless.
I’ve used these guys for a number of years now http://www.xpatrefunds.com Feel free to tell them you heard about them through this blog. Not that they’ve ever offered me anything for my advertising but you never know
462.
assaf | January 2, 2012 at 3:24 pm
karen – see http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=1c59ab0a43b5d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD
=====================================================
Note on Expiration: USCIS continues to accept the 08/01/11 edition of Form N-600K (the form currently available for download on this page), despite the passing of the form’s expiration date. An updated from with a new expiration date will be posted as soon as it becomes available.
This page can be found at http://www.uscis.gov/n-600k
Last updated:12/08/2011
463.
andrewandaimee | January 13, 2012 at 10:54 am
Hi, I have a question regarding the oath? My daughter is 5 presently and I’m hoping to begin this application process. Will she have to renounce her other citizenship even though the other country allows dual citizenship? I have family living in both countries so this presents some problems. I thought the US allows dual citizenship. What have been the experiences of others in this situation?
464.
Michele Wolgel | January 13, 2012 at 12:49 pm
To all of you who might be eligible to register your children here but have been denied, meaning both parents are USCs who never lived there for a long time. I am working on fixing this and might be suing the Department of State.
If this effects you then contact me if not read the article in case you know someone who it might effect.
http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/anglo-file/u-s-officials-denying-citizenship-to-children-of-americans-born-abroad-1.397570
Michele
465.
isranglo | January 13, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Just a technical note. I sometimes get posts here that are either 1) addressed to Michelle 2) on related but not focused on the post’s topic or 3) both. So just to be clear
1) Michelle doesn’t run the blog – I do and I’m not a lawyer. Michelle has been kind enough to on her own initiative join this forum and post and give advice but she’s also a professional who (based on her helpful advice here) is definitely someone you’ll want to consider consulting regarding either a) the more complex details of the N600k or b) personal issues of immigration (or other legal things as advertised on her site http://www.wolgelaw.co.il/)
2) The focus of this blog is the N600k for the vast majority who don’t have special complications and want to get their kids citizenship. I’m not giving the scope for individual cases that can’t help the general public in order not to get unfocused. If you have the paperwork needed and don’t understand questions this is the place for you. If you have specific questions pertinent to your case only such as parents with unorthodox travel histories or unusual documentation methods (“my parents lived 60 years in the states but never kept any documentation except for newspaper articles advertising their performances with their glee club and their official glee club memberships – will that prove their citizenship and does it matter that the glee club is based in Iowa” and so forth) then you should contact Michelle or whatever immigration lawyer you choose to discuss your case with them personally as I can’t help you with it, it doesn’t help the main visiting body here and for your own sake you’ll want advice from someone who has experience of dealing with complex cases.
Thanks for understanding and thanks to Michelle for her advice here to those people with general questions that benefit the public (which is why I’ve posted your site link Michelle though I know you’ve never asked me to).
466.
Michele Wolgel | January 13, 2012 at 1:40 pm
Just wanted to say thanks
I think you said it all
Michele
467.
Jaime | January 13, 2012 at 4:02 pm
Dear Isranglo, Ref N-600K
I am a US citizen by naturalization. My children were born abroad before my naturalization. At the present time I live with my children and wife overseas. I just got a reply from USCIS asking me to prove that I have physical custody of my children. I am not sure what is the best way to prove it.Could you please assist me with this matter?
Many thanks
Jaime
468.
Michele Wolgel | January 14, 2012 at 7:23 pm
I don’t understand under what section you applied if you obtained Citizenship after your children were born..It sounds like you need help in order to get your children Citizenship.
Michele
469.
jaime | January 15, 2012 at 3:51 am
Dear Michele,
Thanks for your reply.I was naturalized in 2010 ,after complying with the green card requirement of living more than 2 and a half years ( 900 days) in the USA within the preceding 5 years .My children were born abroad in 2005 and 2009.At the present time I am living abroad with my children and wife. I filed form N-600k on behalf of them as children born abroad of a USA citizen.I just got an answer from USCIS asking me to prove that I have physical custody of my children .Apparently if I can prove that my petition will be approved. I am not sure how I can demonstrate that I do have physical custody .
Many thanks for your assistance.
Jaime
470.
Michele Wolgel | January 15, 2012 at 7:20 am
I know how to prove custody and would be happy to help however as far as I know you cannot Naturalize your children through N600K as your 5 years of presence needed to be before they were born.
I believe that whoever reviewed missed this but it should be picked up when you send back the other proof.
Again in order for me to help you need to contact me personally and not through the blog see post 465.
Michele Wolgel
471.
jaime | January 15, 2012 at 2:36 pm
Hi Michele,
I forgot to mention that before I got the green card and naturalized , I lived in the States for 7 years while doing medical training. This time counts for the 5 years of physical presence needed as required by the form N-600k .
This is the reply that I received form USCIS 7 months after sending the form:
” Your N-600K application you filed on behalf of your children are now being process.In accordance with section 322 of the INA, all of the conditions as stated above must be fulfilled.However, before your application can be adjudicated the following documents are needed:
1.Please provide proof that you, xxxxx), the United States citizen of xxxxxx have physical custody of all your children.
2.Please provide a copy of your US Passport, including all pages regardless of any entry or exit stamps.
3.Proof that your children lives is a residential property that you either own or maintain.
Please mail the requested evidence along with this letter to xxxxx.You have 87 days to respond to this request………..”
Many thanks,
Jaime
472.
Michele Wolgel | January 15, 2012 at 2:48 pm
Again you need to contact me directly
Michele
473.
charles smith | January 19, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Hi, so wonderful to find this blog. I want to claim the us citizenship for my son who was born in Germany. I am a US citizen by birth but spent less than 5 years in the states. My Dad is a US citizen by birth (was in the army in Germany) and still lives in the States so I assume the grandfather rule should work. However I have problems filling out the N-600K form. Where do put the information about my dad (the grandfather) ? Part 3 is about my son, part 4 about me and part 5 about my wife.. Anybody who can help? And did I understand correctly I have to pay 600 dollars along with the application?
Thankful for any help
Charles
474.
adam | February 9, 2012 at 5:57 am
i just want to thank michele
we are a couple thats not married with 2 children – i am the american citizen and michele got us the date for an interview
on the bases of my mother wich was an american
so thank you very much and good luck to any one in the same
situation – this is a very helpful blog
475.
Michele Wolgel | February 21, 2012 at 2:55 pm
For those of you who follow this blog there are many issues going on that effect those who can register their children abroad
I have started a website on facebook addressing this issue
I think it is an interesting and informative read
Whether or not you have facebook you can read it
If you have please like it
https://www.facebook.com/uscitizenshipinfo
Michele